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Blackmantis:

I don't know of anyone in Wutan(g) who teaches pigua zhang as a separate system, that is, if you walked in and said "all I want is pigua,"I don't think that would happen. However,...

Also the pigua incorporates a lot of hand training with regard to dog skin or bag usage. You can see some of this on Adam Hsu's tapes, however, palm or hand training is sort of a misnomer in that...

Jake, just as a side note, Sun Lu Tang also learned baji in his youth. Its in Tim Cartmell's translation of his Xing Yi.

Baji also also has a strong affinity with Chen's pao chui or cannonfist.
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