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And then:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pUHxvC60Q8

It's possible that I mis read it, the characters could have been blurry due to the printing. I think he once said that there were the Wu Xing in that routine, which would mean the routine is post...

if the original xiao and da louhan routines were first created in the Sung times, then this means that they were created (along with Sun Tzu Chang Quan and Tongbi Quan, etc) to be part of the...

Yeah, for example, what Shaolin now called Shaolin Fanzi Quan was always designated as one of the roads of the 18. And in Shandong where Fanzi Quan comes from, their basic intro set is called Shaolin...

I can't get any downloads from any of your links, it keeps asking for money or log in info.

Looks like the names of the 18 roads are the same as the names of the actual 18 Luohan themselves.

"1.降龙(jiang/xiang long: descending/subdue dragon), 2.伏虎(fu hu: tame tiger), 3.拂袖(fu xiu: brushing...

I recognize this qigong set as Luohan Qigong sometimes known with other names.

But this isn't related to the 8 Roads of 18 Luohan set LFJ is talking about above.

Good to know. What I am most interested in is how Yin Fu Bagua Zhang style got all the main moves and animals from these 8 sets, so that means also that they were together as 8 roads of 18 Luohan for...

Here's more video of Shi Degen's Luohan system:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mkXKnH9B-E - Yi Lu


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAAi39GwjeU - San Lu

Many years ago, when I was corresponding with people who were speaking to Shi Dejian and orthers for me when the Shaolin Encyclopedia first came out, I was told that indeed, this was the case:

4)...

Zhu in his books and articles says he only learned Shi Degen's system of Taizu and Shaolin Quans, I don't think he learned any other ones from anyone else.

I think that sets with their own names now were once names for roads of the 18 roads.

thanks, I really appreciate it!

I have an older Chinese book from 1984, no ISBN numbers (drats) yet.
it is called Shaolin Wu Shu. It is very much like LZH's book, it has the Luohan 18 Hands set first, then Xin Yi Quan, then Mei...

Hmm, well, we have a snapshot of what Shaolin was teaching during Baiyufeng's time via the quanpu I translated. If you go back and look at that, seeing what Luohan routines are listed tells you that...

ok, now you have to compare to the long Luohan form in LZH's book, and to the short and long Luohan forms in Shaolin Encyclopedia.

during the Qing Dynasty all Shaolin sets were said as being part of the Luohan System.

during the Ming Dynasty, all Shaolin sets were said as being part of the Hong system.

By Qing, the word...

Well, LZH vcds of Xiao Tongbei 2 is Taizu Chang Quan Er Lu (as verified by the Shaolin Encyclopedia too). And that is sometimes called Da Liu He Quan, which is bizarre to me. What's the history...

This is all so cool, thanks to all of you for doing so much hard work. It's come a long way and a few years have passed since we started looking at these things.

Ren, the poem seems to have one of...

Grab a copy of this old Shaolin manual, it documents the taizu Chang Quan but it has a ton of great information. It's a famous book by Liang Yi Quan:
...

Yeah, spread out amongst Taizu Chang Quan sets, Rou Quan sets, Luohan Sets, Hong Quan sets, Pao Quan sets, etc.

Its documented in Zhang Songxi's line of Taoist Neijia Quan that their material was developed after their founder was impressed by the Shaolin 12 section brocade-Luohan Shiba Shou qigong.

Its not really that much, look at the list from that Shaolin Quanbu that was passed on from their time to the 1970s, it shows a LOT of sets, most of them are Luohan, Wu Quan, and Rou Quan material....

Looking through my notes, it says that 18 Luohan is taught in some Taizu Quan lineages.

Here is a quote from someone's paper that shows this to be true in Cangzhou area:
...

No, not in current form, if you mean "are the sequences of postural movements the same?". If you mean are the postures themselves in there, then yes, but done more proto-typically.

Well, yeah,...