One more punching thread

[IronFist]

Alright, what's a good number of punches to perform daily for a beginner. Number of air punches and number of punches on a wall bag. What were you taught to do when you first started?

Please no cryptic answers this time, only straightforward number answers will be accepted.

IronFist

[whippinghand]

Forget wallbag, resort to air only.

[vingtsunstudent]

i agree with whippy.
build up to about 1000 in the air.
unfortunately without a teacher things like wallbag training could really be bad for what little you might pick up whilst trying to learn even from books or video.
i can see so many problems you are going to face learning this way, however i must give you credit for trying as you must have a strong passion for the art.
vts

[sanchezero]

just to add to the previous posts...

Don't rush to get to a particular number. Make sure you stop before you get sloppy. Sometimes its cool to bust out a marathon, but as a beginner doing these every day you need to be concerned about quality not quantity.

Occasionally, I like to bang on a heavy bag just to get a feel for unloading and check my alignment. I'm not a big fan of punching sh!t that doesn't move.

[Ish]

i usualy do a nice 550 set. start off with single punches do 10 then do 10 with 2 punchs then with 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10. If your not sore switch hands and go back down again

[edward]

wall bag punching is for conditioning the hand...

as for air punching... you can do 1000 but if you do it wrong, then its a waste of time, you could do 20 and perform it correctly and it'll be worht your while..

thus, there's really no set number of how many you should do...

the key to remember, the more you do the punching, but do it correctly, the better you get....

[S.Teebas]

You should practice at least 10,000 punches per day.

[Sharky]

lol

[Sharky]

but dude, i agree with whippy and vtstudent - you need to practice in the air first.

the problem is, you need someone there to tell you when you're ready to go onto the wallbag, and then correct you when you're on it - you WILL be hitting it wrong.

look for a teacher man. maybe even consider a different style. you're so into lifting etc then you want to take up wing chun wtf?

[stuartm]

Hi all,

Sharky and Ish are right.

In addition I would just add the following. Having opened my club last week I was trying to taech people the basic jic kuen. They were all beginners and so I hope what i am telling you will be useful.

1. Make sure you have the correct fist shape. ie sun character fist angled slightly inwards to ensure connection with the bottom 3 knuckles

2. Ensuer that the chain motion is maintained when punching ie as the extended arm returns the rear fist punches over the top.

3. Make sure elbows are in.

4. Correct height of punch.

5. Dont lock out and dont be concerened with power - relaxation and structure are most important when learning to punch.

6. Sink your weight properly (lok ma) and ensure your hips are pressed forward so you are punching from the ground with good structure.

I intend to teach these basics for a month or two before introduce concepts of power, fa ging and the sandbag.

I would add though that the sandbag's primary role is not for conditioning - this is just an added bonus. The bag teaches you to punch with structure. If your stance is out, elbow position incorrect youwill not be able to deliver a good short range punch. The bag also teaches you to penetrate with your punch - to punch 'through' the bag.

Just my opinion though.

Best ...................Stuart

[vt108]

"wall bag punching is for conditioning the hand... "
You really belevie in it?

"The bag teaches you to punch with structure. If your stance is out, elbow position incorrect youwill not be able to deliver a good short range punch. The bag also teaches you to penetrate with your punch - to punch 'through' the bag. "
I agree. But I would say also that the primary reason for punching the wall bag is to train your waist.

[Ish]

when you say its for training the waist do you mean generating power from your waist or something else?

[vt108]

One of the most important aspects of working of the waist is that it has to be able accept the force which comes into you not only generating power for your movements. Remember when you block a hook punch for example your tan sao will work efficiently only if you have o very good waist ie. when it can accept comming force. The same with a punch. There is a lot of returning force which has to go to the ground but through the waist. If your waist is not strong enough you will loose your balance.
Training on the wall bag helps you to learn your waist to accept as much force as it can. If your own punch to the wall bag makes your waist unstable how can you punch or block your opponent without loosing any balance? You just can't.
People will write that structure is the most important. Yes it is important but waist is, in my opinion, the most important part of the structure. Without the waist there is no WC.

[reneritchie]

There are several ways to check your structural alignment that are probably better to do *before* you hit a wall bag, since that can hide as much as reveal, and what you do when you hit a flexible surface (like sand bag or soft body area) is another topic altogether.

Punching in the air is good, though I believe (and think research shows) that more is not always better. Do it as long as your form is good, then stop and go back to it later if you want. Make sure your horse is aligned, your shoulders stay straight (a mirror helps with this), your elbow stays in and down. I would recommend against *any* upward bend in the wrist (unless you've already hit the target and want to manipulate it). Don't worry about hitting with the pinky (you can sheer that way and do damage to your hand), but align so that the elbow is behind the middle two knuckles. (And your body should be behind the elbow).

Rgds,

RR

[Highlander]

This is how I train my air punches at home. I use a mirror, metronome, and a timer. The mirror is to check structure. The metronome is to check the pace. And the timer replaces having to count. I find that counting splits my focus and I would rather focus on the punch.

Routine:

1) 2 minutes, 40 punches per minute

2) 2 minutes, 80 punches per minute

3) 2 minutes, 120 punches per minute

4) 2 minutes, 40 punches per minute

And occationally I will put a step in between 3 and 4 for a complete burn out. 1 minute 180 punches per minute, but the form really suffers in that one.

Of course you could set the routine for yourself, but the biggest thing for me is forcing myself to go slow and with proper structure. That is what I feel is the most important part.