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Thread: Choy Li fut concepts vs. Wing Chun concepts?

  1. #16
    Yes of course CLF blocks & hits together, as i would say most all gung fu styles do. One eg. is the Gwa choy a hanging backfist straight down at a 45 degree angle. When a straight punch is thrown, the CLF player aggressively charges in with his stance & throwing his waist into the attack to gain momentum.(power & speed flowing) Just as his about to march in & throw his waist into the attack he also throws his arm (backfist) in conjunction with his waist & stance. So the backfist is like a unstopable force, the forearm (kiu sau) smashes the attackers arm & continues smashing the opponent in the face with the back of the hand.(knuckes) The CLF player then useing the momentum launches a powerful punch with the rear hand (cheurng naan choy) & then again with the opposite hand with another technique etc... The CLF player is always flowing & useing his waist to coil like a snake & then releasing with great power, always continuous. Though the power generation is different to wing chun, they both overwhelm their opponents with a barrage of hits. CLF mainly uses its waist for power & Wing Chun uses its elbow. This is only from my limited experience in both, i did WC only for a year & now im going on my 10th month of CLF. But im sure in the latter stages they would have many similarities in combat, even earlier, the power generation is just different. Fu Pow is right about marching in aggressively with ur arms swinging, the backfist is done the same, one thing to know is that the arm must be long/extended to connect. The Gwa is just 1 eg. in the latter stages CLF has many short range techniques, my sifu showed me a few & they are very fast & powerful so from ur fist look they will look very different but deep down a lot of the ideas are very similiar. I have heard that the panther mostly always attacks even when blocking, it slides over the opponents arm then hits. Blocking & hitting in unison & CLF has a lot of panther. I would say this panther technique is a little similiar to the Tan sau of Wing Chun.

    With the stopping/blocking of hits CLF has a very big range of techs. to choose from & it depends on the situation what to use. All CLF players should condition there arms/bridges & they should be like iron bridges. So just by blocking u will destroy the opponents limbs or u can use a circular defence & use the opponents force against him disrupting his balance & taking his centre then taking advantage. This is similiar to Wing Chun. There is also some blocks that u use ur waist to gain momentum & then strike. As i said b4 this is only from my limited experience & CLF has a very big arsenal of techniques to choose from.

    Also i have heard that CLF has sticky hands like Wing Chun, maybe there not the same but i would think that the idea is the same in what their trying to acomplish. Soft/Hard working in unison.(Yin/Yang) Although WC teaches this almost straight away & CLF teaches it in the latter stages.
    They are both great MA systems of SHAOLIN.
    "The Dragon and the Tiger met in Heaven, to revive our Shaolin ways"

  2. #17

    Centre line theory !

    So can anyone speak of CLF's theory (if any) on controlling the centre line. This seems to be a big focus of WT and other styles eg YKM Pakmei Dragon . Sth Mantis. This to me seems the core of where the principles of the two systems can be similar and/or different.
    VT- please don't jump down my throat if I said something inaccurate !!!

  3. #18
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    Fu Pow says

    Its seems to me that Wing Chun kind of starts at the "stick and follow" level. Its not that Wing Chun is necessarily higher level but it definitely starts with the intention of "sticking and following."
    ----------------------------------------------------
    Not quite true. Good wing chun can start at any level.
    Conceptually, wing chun prepares the person- not a slave to
    distance, technique or even sticking (best not to infer dogmatic sticking from elementary perceptions of chi sao).
    Many styles appear to be more technique oriented than good wing chun.

  4. #19
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    Biu Ji,

    CLF also has a centre line theory. Since we tended to fight side on, the imaginary centre line is located not at the front part of the body but along the one side facing our opponent.

    By dropping the elbow, using the knee and having the yang hand reaching out and the yin hand held back, we reduce the surface area open to attack considerably. Our opponent has to go around our side on front to attack the weak spots located along the Ren Mai and Du Mai centre line of the body.

    JosephX

  5. #20

    Extrajoseph!!

    Advantages and disadvantages to every postion ! Side (horse) certainly does reduce the target area but also reduces your striking capability due to the "yin " hand as you put it is further back and has further distance to travel when striking. Though the horse also gives you more distance with the leading (yang) hand.
    How much of CLF techniques are side on? What % would you say ?

  6. #21
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    BIU JI
    that's it, i'm challenging you
    how can you keep posting these lies
    i have learnt from 7000 different lineages of wing chun & now i am challenging you in the old ways.
    blah blah blah...........................
    oh buggar, i forgot i'm not a southern mantis fruity.(sorry to all the real spm people, you know the hagood group-he he)
    sorry bud
    luv ya, luv ya work
    just don't come looking for me because that just wouldn't be fair..... you do know that these days you don't actually stand in front of a man to challenge him don't you, besides that i would hate for anyone to catch me off gaurd in my little pink evening frock.
    vts

  7. #22
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    Biu Ji,

    "How much of CLF techniques are side on? What % would you say?"

    Answer: About the same percentage WC techniques are used front on.

    I am not sure whether this is relevant to our discussion, but I was told since WC was invented by a woman, modesty required a WC practitioner to avoid the breast and the genital region being touched by a stranger, hence the elaborate precaution along the front centre line of the body.

    I was also told by the same WC guy that William Cheung's wife was a CLF student and from her influence he developed a side on approach to WC techniques and told everyone that it was a secret past down by Yip Man to him only.

    I realize they are hearsays but they do make interesting gossips, I like to apologize in advance for my transgression.

    JosephX

  8. #23

    G tanx

    Well that's put simply I guess extrajo, thanks anyway !

    VT- I like electric blue myself

  9. #24

    Talking

    love this, after all these years this one still comes up hahaha.

    WC - CLF same/similair - NO !!

    it is the ging and the faht that show the varaition to each style and these two are totally varing. it is true that conceptual ideas are similiar but this is not style, what has been said regarding simularities relates to many styles.

    jung ding are also not the same, the ma shows this and the sau and choi reveal this. i would not describe CLF as snake but dragon in yeuh.

    CLF does not present the heart, so the ma is required to protect it, WC does not bring this into consideration.


  10. #25
    extrajoseph

    By dropping the elbow, using the knee and having the yang hand reaching out and the yin hand held back, we reduce the surface area open to attack considerably. Our opponent has to go around our side on front to attack the weak spots located along the Ren Mai and Du Mai centre line of the body.

    Well read.

    BIU JI

    Advantages and disadvantages to every postion ! Side (horse) certainly does reduce the target area but also reduces your striking capability due to the "yin " hand as you put it is further back and has further distance to travel when striking. Though the horse also gives you more distance with the leading (yang) hand.

    The Yang is set as such, but need not remain as such. Either hand will yield and/or defy depending on dynamic exchange. By having the yang extended, we're that much closer (and as you say in unison with the stance) to closing the circle.

    nospam.

  11. #26
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    "Not sure about CLF but what about striking and blocking at the same time?"

    WC never actually blocks anything. Rather, we use the opponents energy to generate our strike movement.

    "I was told since WC was invented by a woman, modesty required a WC practitioner to avoid the breast and the genital region being touched by a stranger, hence the elaborate precaution along the front centre line of the body."

    Umm, no. Centerline principle is about the fact that the majority of major strike targets lie along the centerline, and the excellent body mechanics and economy of movement available from observing the principle. I have no idea where you heard this little "no touchy, bad man!" gem.
    Nolite irasci, aequiperate.

  12. #27
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    Please Clarify

    Originally posted by JasBourne
    "I was told since WC was invented by a woman, modesty required a WC practitioner to avoid the breast and the genital region being touched by a stranger, hence the elaborate precaution along the front centre line of the body."

    Umm, no. Centerline principle is about the fact that the majority of major strike targets lie along the centerline, and the excellent body mechanics and economy of movement available from observing the principle. I have no idea where you heard this little "no touchy, bad man!" gem.
    So your saying that it's O.K. for a stranger to touch your breasts and genital region?????

  13. #28
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    Only for $$$ (or coupons). That is the goofiest thing I have heard today, and I work at Disneyland (in my mind).

  14. #29
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    C'mon now, Highlander, was that necessary.
    Nolite irasci, aequiperate.

  15. #30
    Of course it wasn't necessary. But it was funny!
    "i can barely click the link. but i way why stop drinking .... i got ... moe .. fcke me ..im out of it" - GDA on Traditional vs Modern Wushu
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    but what if the man of steel hasta fight another man of steel only that man of steel knows kung fu? - Kristoffer
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