Karate

[Yung Apprentice]

Gojo is one of the better Karate styles in my opinion. I've seen some bad a$$ men come from there. But I know nothing of Shorin, so I couldn't reccomend it.

Of course it all goes down to, do you like the school, which sensei knows how to teach, blah,blah,blah you all know the rest. Only reason one should choose a style between two, is if both schools are equally (or close to it) good.

[Surferdude]

Definitley the goju ryu school.
Its pretty good and your stances will be really, really strong.
Not alot of kicks though, the Hapkido place will have alot of kicks.

[nothingness]

Rogue- I define speedy and reasonable as, in a year I should have some decent skills against an untrained fighter (assuming class 2 or 3 times a week+practicing on almost all days I don't have class for 20 minutes to an hour) and in 2 years have GOOD skills against an untrained fighter and after 3 or more years be pretty darn good.

On a side note, I went to a judo class yesterday for the first time in about 6 months last night. Holy smokes, was I winded! I quit smoking cigs a week ago and we were doing ALOT of randori (I'm a real beginner in judo) and I felt like I was going to pass out. Of course, the fact that I was doing randori on the ground with a black belt and twice he just came up to me, grabbed the front of my gi near my neck with two hands and did an instant/choke strangle on me didn't help much (A TOTALLY SWEET MOVE, by the way). I know judo is a sport but I do feel that it can and will be a good vehicle for me to get some decent self defense skills quickly.

Otherwise, I'm going to check out a bujinkan taijutsu class next week. How's everyone feel about taijutsu? Then, in about two weeks, when I have the $, I'll start an MA, probably the goju ryu, with some judo (unless the taijutsu teacher blows me away).

Incidentally, I checked out a wing chun class the other day, which I've done a bit of before, and I must say that I found it incredibly boring. Most MA classes I go to I enjoy and find interesting, but there's something about wing chun (sim liu tao, chain punching), that just bores the heck out of me. No offense to anyone. It's kind of funny, actually, because wing chun is one of the two root arts of goju ryu (the others white crane) but I enjoyed the goju.

[chen zhen]

WC has NOTHING to do with Goju-Ryu. do your homework, boy

sorry bout that, but I just don't think so.

[rogue]

Rogue- I define speedy and reasonable as, in a year I should have some decent skills against an untrained fighter (assuming class 2 or 3 times a week+practicing on almost all days I don't have class for 20 minutes to an hour) and in 2 years have GOOD skills against an untrained fighter and after 3 or more years be pretty darn good.

That sounds reasonable to me.

One thing I didn't like about the Goju I've seen is that it was hard (where was the soft?) and the techniques needed heavy conditioning of the tools, but there seems to be a lot of Goju styles out there. Judo can be excellent. I was schooled last year by a 60 year old judoka.

Choose wisely.

[nothingness]

From what the teacher told me, okinawan goju ryu has its roots in wing chun and white crane. Not having been present at its founding, I can't say for certainty either way.

Rogue, my understanding is that goju begins with the hard for the first several years and then progresses to the soft. I'm not sure I take your point on the conditioning and techniques. Given that it is common for many chinese weijia and neijia to externally or internally condition its weapons, how does goju differ? For example, when I went to check out a hapkido class recently, the teacher told me they don't do any conditioning of their 'weapons' hardly at all- no hitting heavy bag, shin conditioning, etc... At the same time, he was teaching a shin block to a muy thai kick. I asked him about that since they weren't doing any shin conditioning for the block, and he said that yes it could screw up or break your shin but better that than the alternative. He also said that hitting and kicking the heavy bag causes joint problems so that's why they don't do it. Anyway, my point is that goju uses alot of the same strikes and kicks as hapkido and conditions them but since hapkido uses them without conditioning so could goju, i.e., a punch is a punch and a kick is a kick and can be delivered to soft areas as well as hard. One of the things that intrigued me about the goju class was the instructor's talking about using ki in strikes and relaxing and sinking down into them in a certain way, like a sigh, that involved little 'hardness.'

Can anyone comment on the differences between shorin ryu and goju ryu? Anyone heard much about Shorinji kempo?

[rogue]

For example, when I went to check out a hapkido class recently, the teacher told me they don't do any conditioning of their 'weapons' hardly at all- no hitting heavy bag, shin conditioning, etc... At the same time, he was teaching a shin block to a muy thai kick.

That's horrible, bad training.

[votex]

What everyone is forgetting is that it is called Martial Arts for a reason. It's not just about fighting because anyone can fight. MA is about the forms and fighting. In the words of Grand Master Rhee (TKD) to my instructor (motified a bit), You fight good but you don't know the forms. I teach you the forms and you test next time and pass. Every style is based on the forms and the fighting is a plus.

[shaolin kungfu]

What everyone is forgetting is that it is called Martial Arts for a reason. It's not just about fighting because anyone can fight. MA is about the forms and fighting. In the words of Grand Master Rhee (TKD) to my instructor (motified a bit), You fight good but you don't know the forms. I teach you the forms and you test next time and pass. Every style is based on the forms and the fighting is a plus.

Umm, no. There are plenty of martial arts that don't use forms to teach technique.

And no, not just anyone can fight well.

[Yung Apprentice]

JKD,Muy Thai, BJJ are three good examples of styles that don't teach forms.



Anybody can fight, but not everyone can fight well.

[rogue]

Every style is based on the forms and the fighting is a plus.

Forms without the fighting applications is a waste of training time. Don't forget Hapkido and Jujitsu don't use forms either.

[votex]

Sorry I posted when I was tried and not thinking straight . Let me put it this way then, since I had forgotten about systems with out forms at the time, the martial arts is just that a form of art. Each system has it's own unique style of fighting and you must learn the techniques and most if the time you learn the techniques on a bag or invisible opponent, yes? By forms I didn't mean the forms y'all are thinking of such as a set pattern of movements. But think of a form as practicing the techniques that you could possibly use in a fight, though in the ring that may or may not be the best idea depending on what kind "forms" you practice. Hapkido does have forms because I just meet a guy that practice’s Hapkido and he did a form in a tournament.

About fighting well just because you are in martial arts it doesn't mean you can beat a street fighter. Granted that you should be able and you will have a better chance than your average Joe though. And I never said everyone can fight well only that everyone can fight.

['MegaPoint]

Goju for the most part is more of a body conditioning art, IMO. Shorin is a fighting system. Miyagi wanted a sport (kumite) oriented style. His intent was like Funakoshi's. Bu DO!

Uechi Ryu and Shorin ryu are the best Okinawa has to offer. For real fighting at least. I have yet to meet someone that is not a Higaonna Goju cat that is really all that. They are sloppy and sparring fixated for the most part. Also their brand of Sanchin is an outmoded body strengthening exerxice and the valsalva maneuver that occurs causes many of their masters to die young (70 or younger). Most Okinawans live to be much older than that. Hohan Soken lived well into his 90s. Itosu-88, Chibana 85 and so on. So Goju often = strokes. Strokes suck!

Still a good goju shinshii is better than an outstanding Korean or Japanese sensei or teacher. Good luck and these are opinions based on actual observation.

[nothingness]

Thanks for the responses. 'Megapoint and others- what do you think of bujinkan taijutsu?

[chen zhen]

Is'nt taijutsu old-school pre-1880 jujutsu, or is it a Ninpo art?
Just want it clarified.