What Kind of Chin Na (Qin Na) is in Wing Chun

[FIRE HAWK]

What kind of Chin Na (Qin Na) is in Wing Chun and do they use any clawing techniques like the tiger claw and eagle claw ? And does Yip Man Wing Chun use any type of claw techniques ?

[yuanfen]

chin na is a function and not a technique or a style.
Cavity and joint work.
Yes- there are lines in Yip man wing chun which utilize
chin na but the foundations are in naturally developed wing chun structure-
so the details are different from eagle claw or taiji.
One does not have to graft other styles into wing chun
in order to do chin na.

[reneritchie]

Hi Fire Hawk,

What do you think?

(I find it easier to communicate when there's some back and forth sharing going on, don't you? 8) )

Rgds,

RR

[Mutant]

Wing Chun techniques are like anti-chin na.

It seems to use a lot of the same understanding of physiology and geometry, but towards a different means or principal.

I can't apply any of the chin na I had previously learned on my wing chun sifu's, the motions automatically neutralize chin na (at least up until the lock is totally secure, but I can never get the locks very far on wing chun people), wing chun basic principles totally neutralize chin na.

Its almost like chin na locks are a puzzle and wing chun is a key.

[yuanfen]

The rolling troll gathers no moss.

[reneritchie]

Most Wing Chun Kuen did not, historically, emphasize Kum Na Sao (Qin Na Shou), but as MW mentioned, Fan Kum Na (Fan Qin Na, or Counter Seizing and Holding). Weng Chun Kuen (a sister and possible partial source system cross-trained by and passed along in parallel to, Wing Chun Kuen), by contrast, is famed for its Kum Na Sao. Most Wing Chun Kuen that does Kum Na nowadays seems either to have preserved it or re-integrated it from Weng Chun Kuen (as Yuen Kay-San did in the 1920s when he studied under Fung Siu-Ching, student of Dai Fa Min Kam/San Kam), or more recently, either integrated Kum Na from other systems (either Chinese or Aikido, etc.), or "figured it out" by having some Kum Na knowledge and looking within the system for its remnants, then cultivating them.

Those that are newly added or come from other, non-related systems do, in my experience, seem almost instinctive for WCK to counter (there's a story that in Guangzhou, the government banned WCK in part because the students proved difficult for police Kum Na to handle). Kum Na that's been in the system for a few generations, however, also makes use of Wing Chun Kuen mechanics, is short and transitional, and can be more difficult to deal with if the users skill level is high.

JMHO,

RR

[FIRE HAWK]

?I bought sifu Joseph Wayne Smiths three books and he says his wing chun is called Ng Mui Pai in the second book he shows alot of Chin Na (Qin Na) in his book and uses a Eagle claw or Tiger Claw he also says that his Wing Chun is not from Yip Man Wing Chun if it is not Yip Man Wing Chun what kind of Wing Chun is it ? I am thinking of taking Wing Chun at Sifu Benny Mengs Wing Chun school in Dayton,Ohio where i live at the Wing Chun Musem he has two lineages of Wing Chun that he teaches Yip Man , Moy Yat Wing Chun and Hung Suen Wing Chun that is called Hung Fah Yi i think that is what it is called. There is not anything here in Dayton ,Ohio ,to learn as far as Kung Fu goes .

[Roy D. Anthony]

Rene also,
There is chin na within the Ip Man lineage, but is regarded as a highly guarded secret.

Mutant Warrior,
I wonder since you cannot entrap your Sifu with chin-na, I wonder if he can trap you in his chin-na?

[reneritchie]

Roy - I tend to get yelled at by some of the Yip Man lineages when I dare say they have Kum Na Sao (even if I point out Yip Man was a detective and probably had to know it to arrest people

Rgds,

RR

[Sam]

Fut Sao Wing Chun Kuen Contains Chin-na cavity strikes and anti Chin-na grappling techniques. A multitude of Chin-na and anti grappling technques and concepts are throughout all the forms including the weapons sets. The weapons sets shows how to tie up the opponent within the weapons. Special clawing exersices are done to develope strength and finger energy. Fut Sao clawing is done with internal to emphasise the pointing. Fut Sao uses jars and pole's as well as sand, mug beans, paper, and a specialised clawing dummy.

[FIRE HAWK]

What in Wing Chun would be considered Chin Na (Qin Na) Techniques what hand motions is it things like Bong Sao, Pak Sao,Lop Sao ,the snake hand technique that is in K.T.Chao books Secret Techniques of Wing Chun or is it found in the Chi Sao sticking hands ? I know about the cavity press things those things from Dr. Yangs Chin Na books i read those.

[yuanfen]

There is learning and there is learning. Wing chun does not need to import chin na from anywhere else. All in good time. First one learns one note and then finally play the piano-effortlessly.

[yuanfen]

wing chun really rocks. Players vary. Artists vary.
Some paint by numbers others dont. The beginners palette may not have the chi na colors. Patience on the path.

[reneritchie]

Note: If it's called Chin Na, its probably not from WCK, but something added in or adapted. In WCK, those types of skills aren't called Chin Na (just like Chi Gung isn't called that in WCK

Cup - I can't speak for all lineages, but it mine, the skills were pretty well tested by Yuen Kay-San's teachers. They were both arresting officers (Ngao Mun Bo Tao) during the late Qing dynasty. Fung Siu-Ching in particular was very famous for using that type of thing (he couldn't injure or kill every criminal he was sent after).

Rgds,

RR

[yuanfen]

chinna like kung fu--- have become part of common contemporary language. These coomon denominator terms do not indicate the details of the art. Neither do the names completely describe the action. Wing chun doesnt stop with fists and palms. It is as close quarters an art as there is.
Hurting cavities, joints and related and very close quarters
digtal controls(for self defense) are built into the forms. One does not have to walk around witha surgically attached appendage from another sysem. IMO- others are welcome to theirs.
Examine the forms with the equivanet of chinna in mind---
there is gold in them thar hills.