The real fight is in the courts!!

[wushu chik]

Well, if that's the case...just take out their knee so that they can't follow you.....then call the cops. In my experiences, it's been proven more times than i can count, the person who calls the cops first, get's in the LEAST amount of trouble!!!

~wen~

[red_fists]

Originally posted by Paul
Really, how's that? I could kick someones ass and wait for the cops, or kick their ass and go home. How is the second one worse? it's not like it's a high speed pursuit. The cops would have to find you at work or at home whatever.

You loose credibility by walking away and not being a dutifull citizen and wait for the cops.

Plus, if the Cops find only one Guy there, guess, what his story will be. And what will be written on the Police papers.

If you were attacked why do you go home, and NOT wait for the Cops to lay charges.

[tsunami surfer]

When you leave the scene of an incident whether a fight or a shooting you will be percieved as guilty. Its called"flight equals guilt" Just because you break an attackers nose does not mean you will go to jail. There are 4 elements to self defence

ABILITY- Does the person have the ability to hurt or injure you(stick knife gun broken bottle ect)

OPPORTUNITY- Is the person CLOSE enough to you to employ his ability to harm you.

IMMINENT JEOPARDY- Is it happening RIGHT NOW!

PRECLUSION- Have YOU done everything possible including retreating to a safe place to avoid using force.
All four of these things must be present to use self defence.

'

[Paul]

If you were attacked why do you go home, and NOT wait for the Cops to lay charges.

Because I've been there when the cops showed up before and got taken to the cop shop with someone else's blood all over me held there for hours and screwed with when I was the one who got attacked.

So you go ahead and be the good citizen and see how far it gets you. I've learned my lesson.

[3D Man]

We have a couple of lawyers who train at our school. I was talking to them the other day about this very topic and it comes down to the incrediably vague concept of "expectation of harm."

What you expect at the time of the conflict in essence dictates as what qualifies is a reasonable and thereby legal response. If you expect that someone is going to kill you, you may legally fight for your life. It is self defense. You may kill your attacker.

The problem is the interpretation of the situation. Will the cops interpret your actions as self defense or murder? If the cops arrest you, will a jury agree with you or the state?

A couple of rules of thumb to minimize your risk of going to jail. Unfortunately, you will limiting your arsenal. Try not to make them bleed. Take a little punishment. Breaking an arm is better than the legs. Do not attack the spine. Unfortunately, no one can predict the future or how others will interpret your actions.

This is not legal advice.

[Royal Dragon]

This is a GOOD topipc. Personally, I would leae the scene, and go STRAIT to the Police station!!!

Why??

Because if your life is threatened, but you stay and wait for the cops you are STILL in danger. Better to flee for your life (Demonstraighting fear) and go to the police (demonstraigitng you have been wronged), then to run and NEVER contact police, or stay and later have the losser's defense attoourny say "Well, if he was so scared for his life, why did he stick around long enough for the cops to show?"

Also, stress you tried to back away, and did not want to fight, but he pushed it, and looked like a pshyco who was not in controll of his facilitys.

[Black Jack]

If you are the one who is walking away and their are no witnesses, take off, let the cops deal with the mess, forget the good citizen stuff, you will only dig yourself a steel barred grave with that one.

Most of the legal world is pro-criminal/ anti-self defense, get the hell out of dodge, leave the scence.

[Drone]

A bunch of my friends (5 non-martial artists) tried to play the good guys when a fight broke out. They stepped in and tried to resolve the conflict peacefully. The entire mob (20+ individuals) turned on them instead. All five of them ended up in the hospital with a range of injuries from cuts and bruised ribs, to dislocated shoulder, to stitches from numerous bottles broken over their heads. When the cops arrived and were told what went down my friends were all taken to the hospital and then questioned. Its been a year now not a single guy who ran when the cops came is being charged with anything. Apparently one of the attackers was hurt, he is pressing charges on my friends. Why? because they were the only suckers still around when the cops arrived. Take your own moral from this story. I just think the law works for who ever has the best attorney.

[red_fists]

Originally posted by Black Jack
If you are the one who is walking away and their are no witnesses, take off, let the cops deal with the mess, forget the good citizen stuff, you will only dig yourself a steel barred grave with that one.

Bassically, I would agree there, except that you can never be 100% sure that there were no witnesses.

Just because you don't see someone, doesn't mean that they weren't there.

Just a thought.

[Black Jack]

Red Fists,

True but if given the chance I would leave the situation, better to deal with it latter with a cool head, then get nabbed for defending yourself.

Something which as we both know, does happen, the good guy does not always win, at least not in the pc/liberal mainframe that exists in a number of states, towns, areas.

Japan, may be different, your advice may be very valid from that perspective, all I know is that if I can, I would avoid the cops,how many horror stories have we all heard where a person who had all the right in the world to crush the other guy, got robbed of his rights because of it, by the very people who are supposed to be protecting him.

Just thoughts,

[red_fists]

Actually in Japan, it is best not to get into a fight at all.

According to Japanese law "Self Defense" is non-existant and MA practicioners automatically are the guilty party if they fight.

[Black Jack]

That sucks that Japan is now so infused with the "UN" mindframe that protecting oneself from rape, murder, theft is considered a no-no.

Here on my own home front, good people are trying to fight off that kind of bs thinking, you know the type, self defense is bad, guns are bad, knifes are bad, having a spine is bad, making a stand is bad, doing anything aggressive in nature is bad.

Even so much that people in some towns/states are trying to ban dodge ball games at schools, you know the game where kids throw the ball at each other and say your out, talk about people who have their head shoved up their own ass.

[Mutant]

It all depends, of course, on the particular situation...

But if caught in a nasty perdiciment where self defence or a good old fashioned @ss kicking is nessesary, I think its best to do the dirty work that has to be done and then get the **** out of Dodge, ASAP!

Thats just my personal opinion. The worlds a tough place, and if god forbid you have to take action, I sure as hell wouldnt volunteer to be the one who goes through the beaurocratic wringer. I know what its like to get thrown in the slammer for fighting and the question of fairness or justification goes right out the window, at least until your court appearance, and then its still up to who has the best lawyer and most friends in high places & resources. When a fight has taken place, cops just want to get their hands on anyone involved, thats their job, and then you have to prove your innocense, even if its supposed to be the other way around.

Of course if some killer attacks you with a knife or something like that, I might not be so skeptical, but in your average street fight, its best to do what you need to do and then disappear.

Thats another thing I like about kung fu over other arts that get all tense with large obvious movements and holler 'KI-YAAAA'!!!! The less conspicuous, the better. Better to drop him and walk away then start screaming like a maniac and draw everyones attention to your actions. I'd much rather have a possible witness telling the cops "I don't know, it looked like the guy just fell down and hurt himself.." than "this martial arts guy went ballistic and kicked the dudes arse!"

[Ryu]

"According to Japanese law "Self Defense" is non-existant and MA practicioners automatically are the guilty
party if they fight."


I know EXACTLY what I'm gonna do when I go back there now muahahhaha!

Some of them deserve to get their asses kicked anyway. ........... ... evil Ryu hadou...rising...

Fight KILL DEATH! KILL ALL HUMANS!

(hey there sexy lady...wanna kill all humans?)
Futurama reference Just had to.

Ryu

uh...I mean
Evil Ryu

[Arhat of Fury]

These questions make me laugh-sorry. It is common sense in a situation that will keep you out of trouble. Mercy is the way that will keep you out of jail.

If you are getting robbed attacked blah blah blah... Basically if you have to defend yourself you just need to use your head.

If assailant attacks you and you (lets say) bust his teeth out in one move, he will now be in so much pain that any further attack will be easily controlled and at that point if you choose to "beat his a$$" any more, you are putting yourself at risk of jail. You are now choosing your destiny. Do you want to be a badass? or do you want to be a humble practitioner of MA and use your self defense wisely.

Now lets take the other hand, If you execute a devastating technique on the attacking assailant and it maims him but he's got a heart the size of earth and he still coming at you full force 1st, see if there are any witnesses around that can back you up.(if you are a trained person this will not take that much time or be that difficult) If not immobilize the opponent then get away. If anything comes back to you , you have a solid story. You see. its all about sense.

Some of you say oh " Ill beat his a$$ and do this and do that----c'mon man, if your really that bad then you can control your opponent and any further a$$ beating is malicious and you should be put in jail.


AOF