Sifu trainee programs

[BeiTangLang]

I am curious as to what these are as opposed to regular training programs?

Is it more quantity or quality they get by taking the STP over regular training?

How long to becoming a sifu under these programs?

How many schools use this & what kind of results have been seen?

Thanks in advance for a valuable & non-hostile conversation here.
Best wishes,
BTL

[baldmantiz]

i think that there is more sharing of information to a shrfu trainee since the shrfu training him/her feels that the trainee has an actual desire to keep passing on the knowledge, open a school, etc.
8 step does have a shrfu training program, but i think it has changed since i last got my information about it soim not sure how long it takes, etc.

[Stacey]

I was in it. Its too hard. Too much information, too much work outs, too much leg work. To really succeed you have to make it completely your life, with little else. I decided on a normal life, in which I wasn't always hurting. I've seen it do great things for people, but you have to be a masochist to do it. I finally realized, "what do I have to prove?" "Why am I doing this?" I think people who get into it must have some sort of inferiority complex. All I can remember is pain soaking into my body along with dit ta jow. Bone on bone, slapped skin and the feeling like I was gonna puke. You learn a lot, but unless your gonna be a professional, I really don't see the point.

[EARTH DRAGON]

If you are speaking about james shyun 8 step. He has devised what he calls a "sifu" program. You learn everything at a accelerated rate. You attend 2 sifu camps and cover the medical and tai chi and you get your rank. Heres the catch.. it costs 5,000.

While I was not a fan of this idea when he thought about it in the late 90's he formed it anyway, and then told us that we had to elect 1 student from each school to enroll in the sifu program. I honestly told my highest ranking student andrew not to join and that I thought it was not worth the money I told him I would teach him the same thing for free!
I just thought it sounded like a money making scam like the black belt programs that gaurntee you a BB in just one year. 3 schools in my area have this program and it is a bunch of crap! I am a good teacher and care only about my students. If my rent is paid and I have electric and heat I am happy. My profiet lies in teaching and sharing my knowledge with my students not in their pocket books..........

[PaulLin]

I agree, Fast built are American's way. All business want to earn money will develop some fast way to attract the people who have not understand the subject and have little patient. There is no short cut in Martial Art achievements and it is a life long learning. It is best to learn naturally through every sencond of your daily life rather than special programs.

A lot of Martial Artists can't perform their applications as the way they did in practice, that is because their practice is not natural. If they are just doing another daily activaty when applying arts, they will not have that problem.

[BeiTangLang]

No, I was asking about no one in particular, but thank you for the information & your insight.
You are on track with my thoughts about the "Black-Belt" program bit though. That was & is concern of mine in the new M/A world here in the states. I don't want what happened to several other arts happen to mantis.
THNX,
BTL

[PaulLin]

I think the best class for students learning is that students don't do drills in class time.

I think class time is most efficient used in correcting and sharing. You can show how you drill or react in application and get correction and share common and experiences form shifu and others. Drill should be done on your own time.

Also, in a class, the students are not the only one who are learning, the shifu also will learn some thing form teaching.

I think it is that many shifus used drills to fill the class time so that they can keep students in course longer and fulfill their financial needs.

[spiralstair]

Drills take the place of loyalty and patience.

Most students in the West are used to being 'entertained' in all aspects of their lives. Overwhelming choice in TV channels, restaurants, shoes, cars, clubs...etc produces a person who has little loyalty and is unlikely to 'stick with' any particular thing.

Drills are a Western Sifu's technique in keeping this type of student, because they think if they have done a 'lot' of different things in class they must have 'had a good class'.
Try showing them a part of a form and then saying, "research it, find some applications", then walking away for a bit. One month later they'll be down the street with the guy who runs 'a better workout'.

The arrogant answer is 'let 'em go, I just want the guys who are serious about learning'. Cool, if you want to teach in your garage. Many do not, so what to do in these 'modern' times?
Include some drills. Keep a large school, and watch for the 'diamonds' among the coal.

[isol8d]

I'm confused about how you are classifying 'Drills'.

By this do you mean bag work, pad work or line drills?

General consensus that I get from the people I train with, is that we enjoy working on forms more than body conditioning or bag work.

Exept for the sparring class.

[EARTH DRAGON]

Drills, we have 8 different punches, striaght , back , wheel, hook ans so on. On various days we drill them continuously like 1, 000 of each or 3, 000 of each. by having each student count of in 10's

While you cannot drill every class it will get monotonous. I like to break it up with other warm ups like frog jumps, 2 minute rounds, and endurance stance training.

I thik that in group class you need to work or drill as a class first to warm up and second to feel like a group. this usually takes about 1/2 to 45 minutes then we spend that next hour working on aplication, throws, 8's etc.

The only time I dont drill is my 1 day a week private classes. The reason for this is I cant see being paid for privates and making the student stand in horse and throw punches for the first half of class.

I have noticed that if I dont make them drill in class they will not stand in their home in horse and throw 3,000 that has been proven to me too many times. I also see my privates struggling with wind and endurance when I pop quiz their punching skills. Then I say are you doing these on your own time? they say not really or not as much as I should. So I think that you have to instill drills into your class time becuse 9 out of 10 students will not take the time to do it out of clss........

[PaulLin]

I see what your points now. I guess my opinion is only on the advanced few, not fit the general public as in beginner's level. I forget how beginner will think since I began Martial Arts very young.

To standing in circle, have all students count to 10 for doing the drill is what exactly GM Chang in Shuai Chiao doing more then 40 years. Ask any Shuai Chiao masters form GM Chang, they will surely remembers that and they probably doing that for their own students.

There is Pro. Chi-Hsiu D.(Daniel) Weng, Ph.D., a Shuai Chiao student form GM Chang. His tape's info: TC Media. Phone# 1-800-824-2433. Item# TC-DW010. If you want to find out more in Shuai Chiao, that can get you start. David Lin's tape is better than his, but it is called ZhanChiao(battle wrestling) instead of regular ShuaiChiao. I haven't has the info yet.

[PaulLin]

I really don't get why frog jump was so much of a big deal. Forg jump is well known in TW ever since the birth of the Republic of China. It is used to punish the students in elementary, Jr. High, and high school for bad performance or broken rule. In TW, I never heard frog jump was put in any kind of Martial Art training. I have only heard that people complain that the forg jumps punishments damaged the leg bone structure of students.

Before my belly was too big in my way, I used to do Yin Ji Tui, which is to rise up one leg in harizontal, use the other leg to lower your body till your knee touched chest and then stood back up again straight without fall or change the position of lefted leg. The arms can be rised in front for balance or thinner people will have it on the side the body in shoulder high. I can do 10 of that on each leg, as in walking, left then right, back then. But now I can't get my balance to do it since my belly is in the way. My father told me that one of his kungfu brother used to walk one lap of the track field in my father's high school with it. I couldn't believe it.

I think Yin Ji Tui is more fit to be trained in Martial Art then the frog jump.

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

Wah Lum has an Instructor Training program for anyone planning on opening a school. There is a separate class once a week for Instructors. During regular class Instructors either assist and are given a small group after warm up exercises or leads the class.

PaulLin
You're describing the Tam Tui exercise commonly practiced at all the Wah Lum schools. We don't do any frog jumps.

[yu shan]

PaulLin

Thank you for your quality insight, as usual. Excuse my ignorance, but what does Yin Ji mean? Have you ever tried this same exer. out to the side? Like dropping down, do a low side kick out to side, then come up, repeat?

Hua Lin Laoshi

Hope you have been practicing your tam tui`s on soup cans! Front and side. I would do v-8 juice cans if you can, for your upcoming test I mean. Good luck! Remember strong basics, and SHOW him the form.

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

yu shan
I hear it changes everytime. Maybe I'll be walking the length of a flourescent tube, who knows? Actually he tested our hand forms a couple months back to see if we're ready for the Sifu test. Kind of a pre-test. Ah, the joys of training at the Temple. You show up one night and find out he's testing all the instructors.

How did you become a Sifu? Professional Student training, Sifu Program?

Anyone here go through a Sifu Training program?