Ground Fighting and Kung Fu

[Shooter]

Grappling Insanity, where have you seen this? And what system (style) was it?

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by Shooter


Nope. No competent ground-fighting in CMAs.

How many Tai Chi schools field MMA fighters?

Yeah, that's right. I also don't like BJJ's stand up, Boxing's take down defenses, or Muay Thai's qinna tecnique. Why is it that when you point out a weakness in CMA, everyone wants to whine and pretend that they have no weakness instead of adapting? CMA's got a lot of good stuff. Groundfighting ain't one of 'em though

[Shooter]

everyone wants to whine and pretend that they have no weakness instead of adapting? CMA's got a lot of good stuff. Groundfighting ain't one of 'em though

How long have you been studying Tai Chi? How have YOU adapted in your own studies to address the full scope of combatives? What research have you done into the system that would allow you to make such a general statement?

Instead of adapting? I have no formal training in BJJ or any other submission wrestling/ground-fighting system. None. I don't own a single instructional video either. How is it then, that the TCC training I offer is effectively preparing people to deal with MMA fighters in the MMA arena ( as I'm sure we both agree that MMA is the best format for testing ground-fighting skill-sets)? I like to think the answer is that I've done the research, and the work required which allows me to adapt MY understanding of Tai Chi accordingly. Again, what have YOU done to understand YOUR Tai Chi? Why do you need to go outside of it, as you say, instead of adapting?

Groundfighting ain't one of 'em though? I don't believe you have a broad enough perspective or relative experience to make such an absolute statement. That's my problem with what you're trying to make others believe. Don't blame CMAs for your lack of understanding, experience, and practical knowledge.

Also, could you please answer the question I originally asked and that you quoted me as asking? Thanks.

[LEGEND]

Agreed...CMA has never proven itself in ground fighting. Who knows why??? Do they compete...and if not...why not???

[Mr. Nemo]

Shooter, have you been able to use tai chi to effectively fight on the ground?

[Yung Apprentice]

Stacey is talking about 8 step praying mantis. I've seen a little bit of there ground fighting, I think Earth Dragon said it's called "low mantis" it looked pretty good though. Might not go into detail as much as like BJJ, but I think practioners can hold their own if they HAD to fight there. Plus they teach you how to get back to your feet, something BJJ doesn't teach. They have locks, and chokes, and they go more into detail on striking while on the ground, more than BJJ. But it's also hard to find, not to many mantis schools teach it, or go into great detail. If you could find a mantis school that taught it good, and goes into detail, then you should take a serious look at that school. If you have more questions chech out that Northern Mantis forum.

[Water Dragon]

Yung,
About the only thing I can pull off so far in BJJ is standing up. The art is built around a concept known as positional dominance. It's pretty similar in concept to out stance work. You can't get a sub unless you get a dominant position. By nature, the dominant positions allow you to stand up. Guard passes lead directly into standing back up. The tech can be adopted so you don't have to play the sub game.

[Water Dragon]

Shooter, To answer your question I've never seen a TaiCHi school produce MMA Fighters. The school does produce recognized San Shou champions though.

[Black Jack]

Shooter,

You mean you only use your tai chi training and principles in ground fighting, for some reason I thought you cross trained in some ground based arts like catch as catch can, sorry if I am wrong.

If it is just Tai Chi, where do you get your submissions, positional tactics, holds and so forth, just curious and interested.

Peace.

[Shooter]

Water Dragon, fair enough.


Mr. Nemo, yes (sort of). I don't use Tai Chi. It uses me.


Black Jack, yes to your first question - Tai Chi is a ground-based system. It's hilarious that you'd mistake me for a crony.

It's not a stretch by any means to have operable base (root) from any position in order to apply Tai Chi's 8 Gates, sticking, following, linking, adhering, chin-na, and fast wrestling.

Tai Chi isn't a "style" or an "art." It's a system of movement and energy management. You can't approach it as a directory of techniques, or as containing a particular M-O. It's too non-specific in that regard.

Submissions aren't really the focus. Nor is positional dominance. Those things are left to the player to create and innovate as they apply pressure and fill the gaps. Tai Chi's positional strategies apply in any combative format. I've explained certain aspects of these ideas in great detail on this forum, and elsewhere.

I'd like to be more specific in discussing positional strategies, but my guys have matches coming up next month, and the enemy might be lurking.

[jimmy23]

". Plus they teach you how to get back to your feet, something BJJ doesn't teach."

lol. incorrect

[jimmy23]

WHat event are your guys competing in, shooter?

[Shooter]

jimmy, the promotion is the WFF (World Freestyle Fighting Championship). It's a Western Canadian event.

[wolfkiller]

whoa there, i've never heard of tai chi chuan ever having ground fighting. tai chi teahes practicioners to stay off the ground. not fight on it. and there is no Chinese martial art that teaches ground grappling,

ground striking/striking an opponent while you are on the ground is being taught in some systems/styles, but ground grappling? i haven't even heard of rumors.

[Yung Apprentice]

Sorry guys, didn't know any better, but thanx for correcting me. I'm still learning hence my name! But at least I'll know better in the future. I just thought since BJJ wants to be on the ground, one wouldn't give up there dominant postion by standing up. But obviously as you both pointed out, one can, if they wanted. Once again I apologise for my ignorance.