HOw would this rule change the UFC

[MA fanatic]

Sunstylin:
What I say proves crap? lol First of all, before I prove anything, you tell me a name of a single kung fu master who had proven his skills in any form of hand to hand combat in modern times. Don't go into stories and legends. Trust me, I have read them all. Ron Van Clief was a 10th degree black belt in Okinawan Goju Ryu and a master of Chinese martial arts. He (though a great guy and a good teacher from what I hear) lost in minutes and taken down in 4 seconds. In IL. there have been several masters (though not from China) who have competed in NHB events. There have also been a few who faught in Indiana. All lost. The person you are claiming to be a novice was a guy claiming to practice some 5 animal kung fu. I never thought of him as a master, but he looked pretty good. As for other masters, there have been masters from karate and tkd who have competed in no rules events since the day they began. Don't just look at the UFC, the promoters of which quickly realized that having "masters" of traditional arts (like Thomas Ramirez claiming to be a Pa Gua master from Porto Rico...and getting KOd with a single punch in 8 seconds) competing would get them killed. Look at the No Rules competitions all over the world. Check out the Gracie tape where Royce fights and defeats (twice in a row same guy) a San Soo Kung Fu teacher. Than see his brother Royler defeat a 3rd degree black belt in Kempo (later that Kempo guy published an artical in black belt magazine about his experience). Why not see some Vale Tudo tapes from Brazil (the one features Marco Ruas) where a team of Kung Fu fighters get destroyed by a few nhb competitors. Actually, get any no rules competition from Brazil and/or tapes of challenge matches at the Gracie academy. All traditional masters lose and lose badly. Rent some Extreme Fighting tapes and see how well some proclaimed Wing Chun fighters do. What about a Wing Chun grandmaster (name not included) who got taken down by a challenger at his very own seminar in late 80s. The grandmaster was in his prime back then. No reason he should not have been able to stop a basic double leg take down from a guy with mediocre background in college wrestling. In IL, IN, WI, and MI we have seen no Rules competitions in the early days (before people truly accepted cross training) where classical fighers got demolished. I would imagined people from the West and East coast witnessed the same. I have yet to hear of a traditional master winning any full contact no rules even. Their excuse, "Our skills are too deadly to be showcased...we practice to fight for life and death not sport...we don't want to make the Gracie's money...NHB is for kids, true masters would handle them." LOL To me, and many like me this sounds like, 'I don't want to embarass myself and realize that my skills are not good enough to stop a cross trained fighter...I don't want to face truth.'

Tell me, are you one of those people who still believes in the invincibility of a master? In that case...which one? I'd like to meet this fellow. Seems like before 1993, many masters have been claiming to teach the ultimate art stating that the reason they don't compete, is that there are too many rules. Now that we have tournaments with virtually no rules, all these masters avoid challenging their skill. I respect all that have stepped into the Octagon. Whether they were guys like Fred Ettish (a 5th degree in Kempo who couldnt take a punch) or Royce Gracie. They, at least, didn't talk. And, those novices you Kung Fu novices you mentioned. I respect them much more than any Kung Fu master talking about his skills and skills of his masters, as appose to displaying some of the against a contested apponent. Hell, if Jason Delucia (a novice according to you) faught what you would call a MASTER, I'd have my money on Jason.

Are there good masters? I'm sure there are. I'm not sure where they're hiding. Any master in his prime (as masters of Sambo, Judo, BJJ, Pancration, JKD, have done ) can prove his arts effectiveness by stepping into the ring.
MA fanatic

[Dark Knight]

"Gung-Fu is limited in the UFC as you can not break or shatter limbs, strike to the groin, strike to the floating ribs which can cause internal bleeding, "

In the early UFC's groin strikes were allowed. Today you can try to break or shatter limbs, strike to the floating ribs. But its not as easy as your instructor has been telling you.

[Dark Knight]

Sunstylin you need to find a real fighter and try some heavy contact, your small friends will not do it for you. Highschool fights are not real, or the typical guy in the street, they dont hit hard, find someone real to train with.

[MA fanatic]

See that is what ****es me off Dark Night. People so brain washed that they actually believe in bs like that (one strike one kill, shattering bones and death strikes). Lets just look at this example. Sensei Kanazawa is one of karate's greatest masters. He could do a flying side kick over people's heads without a running start. The man could break any brick upon request in a stack of 10. He shatters rocks with his bare fists. Yet, when asked if he could kill with a blow, he laughed and said, "I one so many full contact tournaments, haven't killed anyone yet."

I think people who still believe in unbeatable masters are those individuals who have a fragile sense of self esteem. Needing to believe such martial arts urban legends is what keeps them going. Getting into the ring would mean realizing that most of what you have believed about combat is false. Getting into the ring could mean being embarrassed in front of your students. So, it is easier to critique than fight. I think most traditional masters would be destroyed if they stepped into the NHB ring. I think really quickly they will find out how difficult it really is to shatter bones, rip off limbs, and kill with a single blow.

Seems like with the advent of NHB events, traditional stylists now have an avenue to display their skill. Very few have actually had the courage to step into that ring. How ironic.
MA fanatic

[MA fanatic]

The funny thing is, all the strikes mentioned above by a poster saying they are not legal, are actually legal. Go ahead, hit the floating ribs all you want. I think you'll find yourself breaking your wrist long before you crack any ribs of a trained NHB competitor. As for all other rules, there are tournaments which no protective gear is worn, and everything wiht the exception of eye gouging and biting is permitted. Yes, even your deadly groin strikes. I think you'll find even groin strikes wont stop a fighter with some pain resistance who is experiencing an adrenaline rush.
MA fanatic

[sunstylin]

where is the name of these so called Gung-Fu masters who entered in the UFC ? I didnt ask about karate masters! Those strikes to the groin and eye gauges and etc are not legal if you do then its a fine! You are full of crap name some Gung-Fu masters and practioners for these examples! I never said that masters are invinciple ! you seem to have a problem with Gung-Fu! Nobody spoke of one strike for one kill! You are just crapping on now! Gung-Fu emphises on multiple strikes at the same time! You spend to much time watching Videos if you practice Jui-Jitsu you would no better then what you are speaking, I trained for seven years in Machado Brazilian Jui-Jitsu ! You have no respect !
You have nothing! If you want some lessons in Jui-Jitsu I can teach you any time for free since you like it so much!

[MA fanatic]

Sunstylin: You are either a kid, or have a great sense of humor. We're having a debate on a martial arts forum, and you challenge someone to a fight to the death at 5 in the morning (not mentioning city and state) like in the olden days of Okinawa and Japan. What kind of an adult does that? lol OK, so suppose you meet a forum member in a fight to the death lol with a witness, than kill him, don't you think you'll get a death penalty? Don't you think our legal system may not see this action as noble? lol I have never heard a 33 year old talk like a kid who watched way too many kung-fu (you killed my father 40 years ago and no I challenge you to avenge his death lol) movies. But, why not make it easy on yourself? You sound like a funny guy. You're probably even a good guy, just a little brain washed. Why not pay 30 bucks and sign up for a NHB competition? Something local, just to test your skills. If you can indeed break bones and shatter ribs, you should no problem taking out the local guys. Hell, you can even win some money. Depending upon where you live (your state), there are competitions every 3 months. Just see this: If you win, your name goes up in lights. You can win money. You can be invited to fight in larger events like Rings, King of the Cage, Pride, IFC, Hook and Shoot, etc. You can make all the traditional arts famouse again. You can make all the none believers, believers. You can open your own school and have all those NHB guys call you master.

Why spend time on challenging and killing forum people? lol Better yet, have your instructor fight and/or coach you. You see the problem here. No one from traditional schools ever steps into a legit ring. They make bazar statements and fony challenges which are always unaswered because they are rediculouse and elegal. We're in the year 2002 here. Had at least one legit master stepped into the ring and won (surelly even with 'no eye gouging rule' a master would have no problem breaking some floating ribs...surely traditional arts have more techniques to depend on besides eye gouging and biting), the same trust people put in these masters in the early days would return to them. People are losing trust and belief because they are on the most part, being let down. I have seen masters enter the NHB arena. Usually they are high ranking black belts from BJJ, Judo, Sambo (master of sport ranks), Greco Roman/Free Style Wrestlers (master of sport ranks), Professional Muay Thai fighters, some master level Kyokunshinkay guys with background in Judo (one such master won the Battle of the Masters tournament in Chicago...a Japanese Shidokan master with Judo and boxing experience) and people who have spent years mastering the arts of Shooto and Pancration. Yes, thouse I have seen. I have yet to see Kung Fu masters, Okinawan Karate Masters, more Japanese karate masters, Indonesian Penkak Silat masters, etc. etc. display their skills against a cross trained fighter.
MA fanatic

[MA fanatic]

I just read your response to my posts. You have to be a kid. You talk like a kid. lol I can't stop laughing reading what you wrote. So you trained for several years with the Mochados? Who was your teacher? What is your rank? Where did you train? Which location? lol I doubt it. But, ok I have no way of proving or disproving that. First of all, in order for me to begin listing names of masters or kung fu practitioners who have competed in NHB events in the early days, I would have to pull out all the old flyers, advertisements and programs. I honestly have no desire to search through old boxes. Better yet, just name me a few masters who have successfuly competed in NHB, and we'll call it a day. Just name me one who had fought anyone in modern times (not some names of fighters who fought matches matches which took place in 1800s). Oh, better yet, why don't you tell me which style of Kung Fu you train in and your teacher's name (if he's famouse). Sounds like you know more about deadly techniques than I do so I would love to learn. Tell me, how is it that one shatters bones or uses his fists to break floating ribs (actually quickest way of doing that is the elbow, and yes wrists can be broken even with a deadly fist lol)? I'm just not clear on that. I thought that after several years of grappling and kickboxing, I would have a pretty solid punch and know something about joint manipulations. I'm always willing to learn. As for video training, you're right, I do own a lot of videos, but I have been training for over 16 years with live and breathing individuals (yes they're breathing, none of my deadly strikes have worked). As for me having something agaisnt Kung Fu, not at all. I studied Wing Chun for 4 years. Still have friends who train in Hung Gar and Choy Lay Fut. We get together and exchange ideas all the time. As for the guy you mentioned who competes in Kung Fu and Kick Boxing, I can believe that. There have been numerous Kung Fu fighters who have successfully competed in Kick Boxing, San Shou, and point fighting events. What does that have to do with our discussion? Why don't you tell us which style or master would indeed do well in an NHB type event without cross training? As for me wasting your time (since you're obviously a fighter not a typer) lol, dude this is the internet. You have the option of clicking me off.
MA fanatic

[Dark Knight]

"And if you think you can provide the challenge needed then meet me at Caringbah Cricket Pitch this Sunday at 5:00am, S.Teebas will be there as a witness, all you need is a long wooden box for yourself, I expect to see you there since you are quick to suggest fights! hehehehehehehehe You are a sucker!"

OK, your 16 at best

Stop living a Kung Fu movie life. get a clue.

As far as breaking wrist, boxers break hands and wrist inside of gloves, you can imagine the damage they would do to themselves if they didnt wear gloves.

Ad if you want to challenge someone, grow up.

Ill tell you what, I will answer you with a movie attitude.....

I WILL MEET YOU AT THE KOBRA KAI, WE WILL FIGHT AT SUNRISE, MY SECOND WILL BE THERE AS A WITNESS!!!!

TO THE DEATH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sunstylin]

Where does it say fight to the death? You have still failed to name these so called Gun-Fu fighters, or is that bacause they do not exist! Why would they waste their time fighting nobodys anyway? Why? Because you are full of it! I sudied privately under Mick Spinks! I also NSW Super CruiserWeight Kickboxing champ, so I know that you dont break your wrist if it keeps straight! How is the elbow the quickest way? Your fist is longer then your elbow! You are a 15 year old kid who sits at home watching UFC and NHB videos thinking you know something! Name one well recognised boxer in these events! What tittle have they held? IBC? WBC? Please name these deadly techniques I spoke of! As for signing up in competitions and winning money, Idont need extra money thanx, Im well off financially!And stick to the topic this is about Gung-Fu masters not other masters! Why dont you ever answer my questions? Is it that you have no proof? Answer my questions! If you dont I will understand it is because you are full of it just like Rolls!

[sunstylin]

You said I need a sparing partner! Whats the matter? Are you scared? I expect to see you there since I need a real fighter and some heavy contact! That is what you said so show me what you are talking about! You have no idea ! I was NSW Super Cruiserweight champ and never broke my wrist, so I do not take you seriously, and will not unless you turn up for the fight since you think I need the experience!

[Ryu]

"I trained for seven years in Machado Brazilian Jui-Jitsu ! "

"I was NSW Super Cruiserweight champ "


LOL..... oh man....
So.......you've trained for SEVEN years in BJJ and were also a cruserweight champ in boxing and kickboxing? And...none of those arts let you break arms or hit the ribs?

Dark Knight and MA Fanatic, you guys are wasting your time.

Ryu

[Ryu]

Easy

"I sudied privately under Mick Spinks! I also NSW Super CruiserWeight Kickboxing champ, so I know that you dont break your wrist if it keeps straight! "

It's right up there on your posts.

Ryu

[Archangel]

sunstylin,

LMAO!!! Ryu busted you pretty badly. Anyways, I can give you a list of the Kung Fu fighters who fought in the UFC but first can you give me your definition of what a Kung Fu master is.

[sunstylin]

I will admit Im wrong if you can name some Wing Chun Gung-Fu masters who have entered these tournaments and got trashed! Anyone please answer! Unless UFC is a fight to the death you will never know the true Victor!!!