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Thread: Monk White Eyebrow daoist or Shaolin?

  1. #1
    tnwingtsun Guest

    Monk White Eyebrow daoist or Shaolin?

    I have heard he was both,but first a Shaolin Chan Buddist Monk,then after the temple burned he retired to a daoist temple.Even though there have been drawings of him in daoist robes the Monks that passed on his art were Shaolin.Maybe it was a cool place for him to hang out in his old age?,maybe the robes felt good and silkie?I don't know,I wasen't there,Chinese history is so full of folklore its hard to put a finger on it,My Bai Mai Sifu says he was Shaolin,other Bai Mai schools say he was daoist,will the real Bai Mei please stand up?,love to hear some feedback from other Bai Mai/Bak Mai/Pak Mai schools,my mind is open

  2. #2
    fiercest tiger Guest

    shaolin or o'mei?

    what i was told is ...
    after the burning of shaolin bak mei travelled to the kwong wai temple & redeveloped his system.

    so is there two "bak mei systems"? the original shaolin, & the redeveloped o'mei?? which one is the one we practise today?

    i have an old article from inside kungfu on fut gar bak mei, which is buddhist.

    remember cheung lai chung learnt from monk chuk fut wan, left him, then redeveloped it again, calling it bak mei pai...

    will we ever find out?

    peace

    bakmeimonk@hotmail.com

  3. #3
    billy_pilgrim Guest
    All of the oral tradition I've ever been privy to is the same as what FT has related.
    It is my understanding that what matriculated in the Kwong Wai temple is a Taoist system w/Buddhist roots. But as for how much internal or external is at play seems to largely be up to the practicioner...I've seen some very fluid Bak Mei and I've seen some very rigid Bak Mei.

  4. #4
    kull Guest
    Popular legend has bak mei as a taoist priest. But can we be sure? Difficult to say for sure.

    Can he be buddhist? also difficult to prove.

  5. #5
    fiercest tiger Guest

    hi everyone

    i know that talking religon is sometimes a bad thing, but can a devoted buddhist such as bak mei was (hopefully) training at sil lum jee for what 20 yrs or more- ill say 20 minimum.

    just disrobe and become daoist and bat for the other side! did he do this to escape capture or to revenge the sil lum jee. some say he was kicked out for many reasons but its hard to see a buddhist become a taoist. buddhist and taoist are similar but different. bak mei could have doubted his buddhist beliefs and changed over to daoist, or was it more a infighting person thing he had against the sil lum jee.

    remember the tai chi master also was a sil lum disciple and left to the daoist side.

    something to think about- nice thread :)

    peace

    bakmeimonk@hotmail.com

  6. #6
    billy_pilgrim Guest
    I can see a Buddhist/Shil Lum exponent modifying his art using Taoist principles. There are other historical examples of this. If the White Eyebrow monk was exposed to Taoist martial systems, and then chose to "internalize" his own Shil Lum art based on these principles, his art has succesfully become Taoist, whether he himself has undergone any conversion is another story...

  7. #7
    TigerFork Guest
    just a personal observation,
    chan/zen buddhism (ie. the type that was a shaolin) has a lot of similarities to taoism, more so than other schools of buddhism...so perhaps the change wouldn't be so radical.

  8. #8
    sifuchuck Guest

    The way I heard it......

    The way I heard it this Bak Mei was the teacher of Ma Fu Yi--the one they called Atsat--the one who turned the temple over to the Chings. I also heard thae Bak Mei killed Gee Sim, the teacher of Hung Hei Kwan.

    I don't know if this is true or legend or what, but I am quite certain that while Cha'n was accepted more readily by the Chinese because its precepts were translated in Taoist terms, the two are still very different belief systems and not at all compatable. In fact the Taoists felt threatened by the incursions of the "foreign" religion.

    If this guy changed from Buddhism to Taoism then it was a big change and there very well could have been political reasons.
    :rolleyes:

  9. #9
    kull Guest
    If we accept the legend that bai mei was a buddhist monk and then he killed Gee Sim; then wouldn't that cause a buddhist (a devoted monastic religion with a clear code of behavior) to become a taoist (a more secular philosophy/religion). Kinda like Christian story, of Man's fall from Grace.

    Again we have no histrorical proof of either. Just b/c we know he learned at shaolin does not mean he is monk. He could very well be taoist or even regular person.

  10. #10
    tnwingtsun Guest

    Shaolin

    Saw a pic of Cheung Beng Fatt(CLC's son),in the background there is a scroll that says "Monk Bai Mei comes from Buddist Shaolin",if he was Buddist why would he change to Daoist??,I'll get a scanner in a few weeks and post the pic.

  11. #11
    fiercest tiger Guest

    who knows

    maybe the 2 factions joined together when the ching came in. buddhist where being slaughtered and they became daoist to hide from the authorities.

    so they went to the kwong wai temple, bak mei and fung do duk. :D

    peace

    bakmeimonk@hotmail.com

  12. #12
    kull Guest
    How do you know for sure bai mei is buddhist?

    As i say again some ppl. now say he was not even a real person.

  13. #13
    CannonFist Guest
    I think Pak Mei is more popularly known as a Taoist in terms of legendary stories. Often my friends that are Chinese will ask me about the kung fu style that I am doing and when I say that its Pak Mei, they would nod their head and say, "Oh thats Pak Mei Tao Yan's style" (in Cantonese it means White Eyebrow Taoist man). And I am talking about Chinese that doesn't know much about martial arts but have watched quite a few Chinese martial arts movies.

  14. #14
    tnwingtsun Guest
    leaves me wondering kull,were any of the other "five elders" real?? I mean its hard for me to buy the story that Nun Ng Mui (Wu Mei) developed Wing Chun from watching a fox and a crane fight(or was it a klingon and a vulcan).I've seen the Wu Mei people and they look NOTHING like the Wingtsun/Wing Chun I've seen.And they claim to come from the Nun,why so differant?

  15. #15
    fiercest tiger Guest

    tnwingtsun

    hi there!

    wu mei is plum flower style, i think wing chun was made by a student of ng wing chun. this person named it after her teacher, well thats what i have read... i dont know if that is correct? i dont do wing chun.

    i heard wu mei is quite good, has plum flower poles and other stuff. i read an old article that ken lo i think he was the master in the uk at the time in combat magazine.

    c ya ;)

    peace

    bakmeimonk@hotmail.com

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