Sparring: Why wait?

[yuanfen]

You and others have posted some very valid reasons about why sparring shouldn't happen soon. Others might have a different opinion, but the conerns you voice are real.

What I don't understand is why simply challenging the prevailing assumptions evokes such rancor.
My reply-
((No rancor at all. You mistake the intentions. There are two- and they vary. 1. Often times the same old questions are asked
abut wing chun by anonymous non wing chun trolls. I appreciate your elaborations on grappling BTW. Its more boredom than rancor. I never tire of trying to be helpful to a sincere newbie atleast in my intentions. When i see a reflexive sarcasm about my art
I try to ignore- upto a point... because there are other readers besides the poster, at some point I might chose to reply however briefly
2. More importantly than the above--- you are not the only merry prankster around. The gift of laughter is important- s[ecially when the gods are crazy and mirthful themselves. Never mind the assumptions on that)))

And the only conclusion I can come to is that somehow its considered arrogant to challenge the assumption, when, in fact, thinking critically is all ABOUT challenging the assumptions.
My reply:
((I dont have a problem with critical thinking about the premises of wing chun or any subject.. Been there- done that and do that myself..I do get bored with dogmatic assertions from non wing chun perspectives which can come accross as faddish group think. The problem often
on the net is so many posters become instant experts and have opinions about everything. In politicsI am a complete egalitarian-
because of the democratic notion of consent.In some areas such as chosinga mayor for some cities we would probably have the same percentage of errors if we chose by casting lots or drawing straws. But in matters of searching for knowledge, I am less of a democrat. One nedds to combine botha questioning creative attitude together some tacit knowledge of a subject.PS. Wing Chun's fundamental structural principles- the famous YGKYM allowing for lineage variations are simply different from wrestling, boxing, tkd, karate and non wing chunners and many newbies dont understand the stance and how important and difficult it is to develop that stance well so that it is both very rooted and very mobile and provides a launching platform for an extensive and powerful array of weapons. Is it constantly important to prove
that? I dont think so. Critical inquiry also requires some work on the part of the inquirer))

Or, I could be tired from 12 hours of watchstanding and be talking out of my arse about the arrogance bit... but critical thinking starts with challenging the assumptions.

((Sleep deprivation is an American epidemic... I average 3-4
hours... and not by choice...but wing chun keeps my center.
It just happens to be true!))


PS Given m y two fingured bad typing... my actual spelling skills are often in flight via erring fingers and absenta list
software spell check.

[rogue]

yuanfen,
Let's bury the hatchet and spell checkers(sp?). I didn't start this thread to start a fight, I was just looking for some information. I've tried out WC in the past and I loved the ideas and concepts but something about the physical part never clicked, but it still holds an interest for me though.

And anyway, some of my best friends do WC.


BTW
"2. The movements, structure, stancing and footwork when done well are quite different from boxing and wrestling or what normally takes place in what is commonly called sparring. When wing chun motions become relexive- it may be a different matter.."

That would have been a nice first answer.


Have any of you ever worked out with people from other styles and if so how did you do with things like controlling the distance?

[yuanfen]

yuanfen,
Let's bury the hatchet and spell checkers(sp?).
((I dont usea hatchet...but the tomahawk is not too far away))

I didn't start this thread to start a fight, I was just looking for some information. I've tried out WC in the past and I loved the ideas and concepts but something about the physical part never clicked, but it still holds an interest for me though.
((Not snobbery- justa fact. There is so much diversity and also bad examples of wing chun it is not an easy thing to really understand the art despite its (unfortunate) popularity))

And anyway, some of my best friends do WC.

((In some circles- phrased that way-thats a put down))


BTW
"2. The movements, structure, stancing and footwork when done well are quite different from boxing and wrestling or what normally takes place in what is commonly called sparring. When wing chun motions become relexive- it may be a different matter.."

That would have been a nice first answer.

(In different ways- I have been saying the same thing))


Have any of you ever worked out with people from other styles and if so how did you do with things like controlling the distance?


((Yes- I have worked out with good boxers abd wrestlers,....
if people rather than "sparring" do enough of the full reperuire of chi sao...they wo;; appreciate spacing and distance

[Merryprankster]

yuan--no worries. I know exactly what you are saying, and this is why I don't criticize the time frame you and others suggest. It's not my place. I don't know enough about WC to suggest that you are somehow training improperly.

[Roy D. Anthony]

I do not want to say anything negative about other lineages, however, in our lineage, Wing Chun encompasses everything. When you learn the Wing Chun system closer to the full system, you will see what will look like sparring. very spontaneous and free. If you require details, you can PM me.

[old jong]

rogue
Grand Pooba

Registered: Dec 1969
Location:
Posts: 2314 (From the jkd forum) "Here I was trying to stir up some actual conversation in a wise @ss sort of way. I did a real beauty over on the WC forum by just asking a question about sparring. Somehow MerryPrankster got sucked into that one."

He! He! He!...A real beauty indeed Rogue!

[rogue]

All I know OJ is that I want MerryP with me when I have fun in a bar.

"Here I was trying to stir up some actual conversation in a wise @ss sort of way." Referring to a post in the JKD forum, not here.

And that's all I was doing.

[Merryprankster]

Well Rogue, the next time I'm in... wherever you are.... we can spar and have a beer after

[old jong]

Come on, you know that!... You are a great teaser yourself, I believe!

[JasBourne]

chi sau: Congratulations on your years of study. I still disagree with your statement concerning SLT. In my opinion, doing the SLT slowly (and, as Rene pointed out, with proper intent) is very much what teaches you to beat people on the street. SLT is the foundation. And I disagree with throwing someone into sparring "once a practitioner has a few basic moves in his arsenal", as I believe it fosters bad wingchun. If you disagree with my opinion, not a problem.

KenWingJitsu: perhaps I mis-read your post, if so, I apologize. Perhaps I don't understand the differences between wingchun and Wing Tsun. What is "sparring based on trying to acomplish specific goals."? We only have one goal - get in fast and disable your opponent.