How to train for multiple opponents

[Mr.Sleazy]

I am just starting out training in MA, but I already have some admittedly hide-bound opinions. One of these is that combative training needs to be done with partners who are resisting - sparring. I think that sparring is one of the essential training tools for one-on-one combat.

Where this seems to fall down, however, is the multiple attacker scenario. Sparring with 2 or more opponents I think would be pretty dangerous, on both sides, just because things get much more unpredictable in that situation. In 1 on 1 sparring, injuries are generally avoided because certain techniques are restricted (eg elbows) and control is better. Sparring 2 or more I think it would be much harder to stay in control and not hurt someone or be hurt. But if 2 on 1 sparring is dangerous, how to train this?

And no I have not done any 2 on 1 sparring.

Interested to hear other opinions on this.

_________
Thats MR. Sleazy to you!

[ewallace]

I think 2 on 1 sparring is a very good thing to train. It gets you familiar with having to think about more than one person attacking you. Sure you can't use all the techniques that you would probably use in a real situation, but having seen it before does prepare you a little better for a real multiple attack situation. Especially if you concentrate on one of them for too long. Good lessons to be learned there. You do have to have two people you trust to controll themselves if it is outside of class.

[fmann]

Practicing the 2 on 1 teaches you 2 really good lessons, too:

1. Movement is the key in multiple attackers. Don't need any flashy flying kicks or anything like that. Simple moving and punching can easily do the job. KISS and run - keep it simple stupid and run run run when you can!

2. Getting ganged up sucks. There is no guaranteed way to get out of a multiple attacker (w/ or w/o weapons) situation <u>every single time</u>. If anyone has a guaranteed way besides running away, I will worship your skills.

[grogan]

If just starting off in MA I would just concentrate on the one in training if you go hell for leather on one single person and not worry about the rest until that one is finished and then see what you can do Run/fight another once that one is down. But I think fighting multiple oppononents within your first couple of years of training is giving a false sense of security, if it was that easy why don't they put Mike Tyson up against two white/fat/unfit guys that they have putting him up against lately? Think of being able to handle multiple attackers as the cherry on your banana split, so get your foundation first.

[Mr.Sleazy]

OK your replies sound pretty good, I would definitely NOT want to spar 2 on one yet I would get thumped. Maybe in a couple of years.

With a 2 on 1 situation, it seems to me you would want to use the most violent techniques available. For me practising pankration and muay thai, those would be elbows, clinch knees to the face, and perhaps joint destruction. The comment about movement makes total sense.

Perhaps later on in my training I will get to this, don't worry grogan I am not jumping into it now and will never develop a false sense of security - any 2 on 1 situation I will concentrate on getting away.

The only real multiple attacker situation in my past occurred when I was 22 (10 years ago). One thug-type guy hated me for beating him up previously, and I ran into him and his three buddies when I was by myself one night. The thug guy was all for beating the crap out of me, but his buddies weren't so into it. I pretended that I was not the person they were looking for, and the thug guy ended up punching me once in the jaw then letting go at the urging of his buddies. Then I left, fast. That worked for me. I know if I had tried to take the thug guy out, the whole thing would have escalated.

Most sparring just seems so different from that situation. Training for that would be more role-playing type stuff.

Thanks for your replies.

[ewallace]

I'd have to disagree with waiting years to spar 2 on 1. I am not sure if grogan was saying to finish off the first attacker and move to the second. I hope not. Groups waiting around for their chance to go at it one on one only happen in the movies. My perspective isn't about the techniques you can/can't use, it's about getting as comfortable as possible with more than one person attacking you at the same time.

[nospam]

fmann,

1. Movement is the key in multiple attackers. Don't need any flashy flying kicks or anything like that. Simple moving and punching can easily do the job.

Good answer. I totally agree.

And that applies to 1on1...

nospam.

[grogan]

Originally posted by ewallace
. I am not sure if grogan was saying to finish off the first attacker and move to the second. I hope not. Groups waiting around for their chance to go at it one on one only happen in the movies.

That's what I was saying, checkout the thread 4 v 1, did he flip one bad guy with one hand while strangling another with his other hand while doing a 2 nuts jump kick downing the other 2, NO,

he started on one waited till he went down and then moved to the next and so on, using pure aggression.

Not dancing around a couple of check kicks here and there to keep them back while keeping an eye on all 4 of them blocking a punch from one side while hitting another person in the chops. If you are faced with 4 and no avenues of escape head for one to do the most damage you can on him in the amount of time you've got till he's taken out than move to the next, if you don't have time to make it to the next as you stuffed it at least you only have three people fighting you at once instead of 4.

[grogan]

Tumbleweed rolls past.........

[JerryLove]

The 4 vs 1 thread was one guy attacking 4 people, not defending against 4 attackers.

[grogan]

And?

[The Willow Sword]

learn to sprint on the track,,time yourself and push your self so that you have good running abilities. and most of all,,,go to a shooting range and practice shooting with a hand gun. hey i might be a martial artist and will spar and get hit and all,,but when it comes to my life,,,i dont play around. you wanna come at me? be prepared to do some matrix dodging cause the bullets are going to fly your way. lets see a bjj kung fu or angry skater punk try and deal with that.

Many Respects,, The Willow Sword

[ewallace]

that video showed nothing except one very ****ed off dude going berzerk at four seemingly unwilling participants. With multiple attackers (key word "attackers"), you have about a second before they are all on your ass like bees. I agree to go after the closest with the best shot you can give. But unless you get rid of the first with one shot (or a good quick combo), it is wishful thinking that you are going to have time to do a bunch of fancy moves to one guy while the others are waiting to have 'a go' with you.

[dnc101]

Been there, lost badly, so take this for what it's worth.

The best way to prepare for multiple opponents is to drill your basics untill they are second nature. Pay particular attention to footwork- avoidence and positioning has it all over trying to block and counter strikes frome several jerks at once. And they will usually be trying to position you between them, which is where you don't want to be. As for working on one at a time: sure, but work him quick and don't get tied up. And if he doesn't go down, back out and maneuver. Don't let his buddies get position on you.

But the main thing to remember with multiple attackers is that it's a poor set of feet that let a body get beat. Run. Then later, find them one at a time, sneak up behind them, and hit them with something heavy.

[cagey_vet]

curious as to where are all the BJJ guys ran off to...