What's the story behind William Cheung learning a different Wing Chun from Yip Man?

[Rolling_Hand]

--Meaning what exactly?

2+2=?

--I started a civil conversation with you,

Same here!!!

--are you insulting me now?

Hey brother,
Don't lose your cool. You should rethink your approach results in finding a better way!!! And I would like to ask the same question to you if you don't mind - Are you insulting William Cheung now?
If not, let bygones be bygones.

[Rolling_Hand]

--I wouldnt say William Cheung is not as good,

IMHO, William Cheung is 500 miles ahead of Leung Sheung and Kenneth Chung.

[red5angel]

RH - I would say great, I hope you are getting out of his program what you want to!

[byond]

HEY ROLLING HANDS,
QUICK QUESTION........YOU MENTIONED YOU DONT ACCEPT ALL OF SUM NUM/YKS STORY.......WHAT PARTS?? IM IN THE YIP MAN LINEAGE BUT LIKE DISCUSING HISTORY AND ALL THE POSSIBILITIES........NO FLAMES JUST DISCUSION...........B

[Rolling_Hand]

--those who championed their sifus stories, sometimes to rediculous extremes

Well said!!! In China many people have never been able to accept Sum Nung/YKS claims. However someone wrote a book to champion his sifu's stories!!!

[byond]

ACCEPT WHAT CLAIMS?????SPECIFICALY,,,,

[reneritchie]

RH - If you're referring to me and my book, I applied a critical ear to what I heard, and a critical eye to what I wrote. My Sijo and Sigung's claims are supportable, especially in China. I'd gladly put my book up against any other book of its kind in that regard.

If there's anything substantive and specific you'd care to discuss, I'm more than willing.

BTW- I continue to respond to you with consideration and respect. I would appreciate it if you would return the courtesy.

Rgds,

RR

[byond]

hey ren,
we have talked a bit, ive read lots of your literature....from my understanding all the info you mention is documented...in town records ect. have you heard of anybody disputing the historics before??

[gnugear]

So when did William Cheung's system "emerge"?

Was it indeed after Yip Man's death? Was it a slow evolution, or did it just "happen"?

[anerlich]

My first instructor, David Crook, trained with William Cheung in the 1960's in Canberra, ACT Australia.

My current instructor, Rick Spain, started with him in 1974 in Melbourne. Yip Man died in 1973 (or was it '72?).

David does his WC with a toes in neutral stance and bent wrist on the bon sao, Rick Spain with parallel stance and straght wrist bon.

David did tell me though that William's footwork has always been "a bit different to everyone else's".

I think "modern" TWC started when William Cheung moved to Melbourne, set up his HQ there, and began teaching full-time.

I didn't set out to insult William Cheung, just relating his stories and my opinion of them, and some situations in which he has played a role. If that makes him look bad, I'd say that was his fault, not mine.

Rolling Hand you question my motives re William Cheung, then cast your own aspersions on Sum Nung and Rene by association. Can you spell "hypocrite"? How about "troll"?

[Rolling_Hand]

--ACCEPT WHAT CLAIMS?????SPECIFICALY,,,,

Do you really want to know?

Anerlich,
--Rolling Hand you question my motives re William Cheung then cast your own aspersions on Sum Nung and Rene by association. Can you spell "hypocrite"? How about "troll"?

Brother, have patience....covering your bases hasn't done much to secure your position.
You could say anything about me and I don't mind. But please don't say any bad things about William Cheung - After all, he's still your grandmaster, show your respect!!!

[Rolling_Hand]

--I applied a critical ear to what I heard, and a critical eye to what I wrote.

Even you're all ears and all eyes, you wouldn't know who took Madonna's Cherry, would you?
A bump in your head sends you into a panic. Don't lose your cool, you'll see the light at end of the tunnel soon!

--My Sijo and Sigung's claims are supportable.

According to you, if your lips itches, you've got it. However, someone may learn more about the truth than you for taking an unpopular stand.

--especially in China

Different villages and towns also have their own stories - You've got your pick!!!

--I'd gladly put my book up against any other book of its kind in that regard.

In order to have a clearer idea, you may have to do something extraordinary for your book(S) - burn them!!! You hate giving up any ground, but it's the right thing to do. In other words, you might have a very good picture of Madonna in your book, but the real Madonna lives in Beverly Hill.

--I would appreciate it if you would return the courtesy.

Will do...do you want a box of Seez Candy or the wild and crazy underwear for X'mas?

[reneritchie]

Andrew - I've heard/read Cheung sifu in videos and books discuss how he made some developments himself, such as the elbow watching, the knife set (he said the original one he learned was not to his liking but I forget the reason, too short or something). I think that's only natural, though, as living things tend to evolve as time goes on (and I'd imagine the Aussie fighters might have had a difference or two from those in Foshan 8).

Byond - Yes, even a quick look of the stories in China will show they share many similarities across lineages, and much of the information is documented by the Foshan MA Association, with copies held by the older practitioners and the family members. They've been disputed from time to time. Yuen Jo-Tong (Yuen Kay-San's grandson) sometimes refuted the (sometimes anonymous) attacks with detailed responses and it never seemed to continue much after that. In general, however, my sigung says that wise people will look into it for themselves and make intelligent assessments, so the petty politics, posturing, and propaganda is not worth worrying about. The truly skilled folks never seem to bother with it, at any rate.

r5a - Not at all. I'm flattered, if not embarassed. At least it will remind me to follow my own advice, if nothing else, and perhaps others will contemplate it as well.

RH - Sorry you lost your center so easily again. If you have something of substance to discuss, I'll be ready, willing, and able. If not, well, I always prefered astronomy to astrology.

Rgds,

RR

[Sihing73]

Hello,

I see that some like to blow smoke to cover a lack of substance.

You know it is funny that some of the greatest masters were also the most courteous. Rather than spend time and energy trying to put someone else down, or build yourself up, why not just discuss the art. Every lineage has merit and has people who can make that approach work for them. While history can be important, sometimes truth gets lost in the mist.

Rather than argue and insult each other why not extend courtesy to one another. Agree to disagree.

Peace,

Dave

[Rolling_Hand]

Waar gaat u naar toe?
Wat is uw e-mail adres?

Roger(VP-EXT-110)
Ik vertrek niet later dan half twee