Guns for protection...

[Dark Knight]

England -- Licenses have been required for rifles and handguns since 1920, and for shotguns since 1967. A decade ago semi-automatic and pump-action center-fire rifles, and all handguns except single- shot .22s, were prohibited. The .22s were banned in 1997. Shotguns must be registered and semi-automatic shotguns that can hold more than two shells must be licensed. Despite a near ban on private ownership of firearms, "English crime rates as measured in both victim surveys and police statistics have all risen since 1981. . . . In 1995 the English robbery rate was 1.4 times higher than America's. . . . the English assault rate was more than double America's." All told, "Whether measured by surveys of crime victims or by police statistics, serious crime rates are not generally higher in the United States than England." (Bureau of Justice Statistics, "Crime and Justice in the United States and in England and in Wales, 1981-1996," 10/98.) An English doctor is suspected of murdering more than 200 people, many times the number killed in the gun-related crimes used to justify the most recent restrictions.

[Dark Knight]

"A June 2000 CBS News report proclaimed Great Britain 'one of the most violent urban societies in the Western world.' Declared Dan Rather: 'This summer, thousands of Americans will travel to Britain expecting a civilized island free from crime and ugliness. . . (But now) the U.K. has a crime problem . . . worse than ours.'"

[Dark Knight]

"An Ohio appeals court Wednesday agreed with a lower court that a state ban
on carrying concealed weapons is unconstitutional. For many years, Ohio law
has barred people from carrying concealed weapons and from having a loaded
gun in their vehicles. The lawsuit challenging the concealed carry ban was
filed by five people who said it violated their right to self-defense."

- CNSNews.com, 4/11/02

[Black Jack]

Dark Knight,

I know! What great news! A real win for gun freedom.

[umgong]

Willow Sword,
You are more than invited to move to our great state of Kalifornia, especially in so Cal, where you don't have the right to bear arms in much of our counties in the state. You are not allowed (read permitted) by the people who run this state to carry.
So you'll be more than happy not to have the option of "murdering" (your words) any perp who wishes to mess with you or your family outside of your house. You are also not allowed to carry most martial art weapons in defense of your life. Of course, the bad guys have no qualms of attacking you with their "illegal" carry gun and with at least several of them against one of you.
In some of the areas, most of the residents are afraid to go out at night because of the lowlife that come out at night. You'd enjoy living all of your life that way.
We are not at war? Many of those folks are already under siege conditions from the bad guys. At night, many of the areas are run by gang guys....you are taking your life in your hands by going out at night in many of the areas. There has also been a rash of home invasion, where they come to your house, kick the door, and have their way with you, your wife, your daughters
...etc.
Come and live in those conditions every day of your life and then I'd like to hear your ranting.
Unless you're one of those elitists who can afford to have a bodyguard(s) and a driver and live in a gated community.

Most of the "gun" guys that I know that carry legally? They carry responsibly....not because they think it's "cool", but because they accept the responsibility that protecting their lives and the lives of their loved ones is their responsibility. All of them....and I mean all of them (over 500 of them) refuse to carry if they are going to any drinking establishment. These are guys throughout the United States.

I'm sorry that you know the "other" guys that carry guns....I'd change who I hang around with, but it's your life.


Red Fists?
Most of the guys I know are average folks who might go to the range twice a year or maybe a little more. A couple of them are competition guys, but most of them are just average people.
Almost all of them can shuck that pistol out of its concealed holster in one (1) second or less. I believe the average time is .5 or 1/2 a second. Is that too slow?
Please define "offensive" weapon? In all of our discussions (almost daily by e-mail) most of them would not draw or "brandish" their weapon unless they were sure that a deadly threat is presented by the aggressor.

I find out that my friends help define who I am. I suggest picking them wisely. Never know when you need some to "watch your six."

Oh, by the way, guys, we just heard on the news that in the Los Angeles area, the number of violent crimes have tripled since two years ago. But they don't let us "legally" carry in Los Angeles County.

In surrounding counties (San Bernadino & Orange Counties) their incidents are going down, their sheriffs have been issuing permits to carry on a general basis....any applicant that qualifies.

Go figure.

[The Willow Sword]

So YOU are an Atheist? so in effect you have no real spiritual morals or values ,,no belief in a higher power other than yourself?
to me THATS the WORST type of person to own a fire arm. and your anti-government remark about them deciding for us? sounds to me like you are a militia man. or am i wrong about that? oh but thats what i am reading into with your posts,, boy i am just coming up with all sorts of wild conjecture and BS arent i? get a brain Black jack and stop being a beeeotch. and as for my redneck comments,,,,,i AM a Kentucky RedNeck so i have a right to say whatever it is i want to about em. if you will refer to my first post i SPECIFICALLY said rednecks with horrible conflict resolution skills. not all rednecks. hey i am proud to be an educated KY Redneck WITH shoes. wish more would follow the cue.
UMGONG, i am not blind to the inner city violence and the gang realted crime and crime in general in this country of ours. If you want to really think that we are at WAR in this country then i guess you will live with that paranoia,,WE HAVE CHOICES TO MAKE as americans and decent citizens, you CHOOSE to live in a bad area and you CHOOSE to feel like you are at WAR with everyone around you then LIVE with that choice. BUT on the comapssionate side of YOUR situation i would say this simple thing to you: Why dont you MOVE to a better area and let the INGRATES who take advantage of our system and freedoms kill themselves? if they were a REAL THREAT to our NATIONAL SECURITY do you honestly think that it would be happening right now? what our country has for crime and violence is no different than any other country out there with the same **** problems as us. when you go around with this "we are under seige"mentality you make yourself suseptable to the demons who make it hard for others to live. so you live in an inner city? GET OUT,,get some education,,work the system properly be you white black yellow or red and you will MAKE IT OUT. christ people stop whining and complaining about everything,,,,,you think the GANGS out there do? no man they have got thier system down,,they make thier money and they live thier life,,it goes against our national morals and law but hey thats life. i dont like em anymore than i like militia groups and racist hate organizations.
i have a question for the UK residents,,,,,,,Do you guys still have trouble with the IRA? i have not heard a peep in the news about it.
Many Respects, The Willow Sword.

[GreyMystik]

i'm an agnostic with no belief in a power higher than myself, does that make me a terrible person to own and/or use a firearm?

[Black Jack]

Pleazzzzzzzz!

Give me a break with your ignorant clap trap Willow Sword, its the same carbon copied bs that one hears over and over again, at least get some new material of your own insight.

There are two points I have to point out, even though it is going to be hard because your post is so funny its absurd, ready kiddy.....

1. When the state government bans a weapon, such as a firearm, knife, or anyother defensive tool for what it believes is for your own protection, which it never is, then they are making the decision for you.

How hard is that for you to comprehend? Do you need me to use caps or something?

I am not anti-government, I am anti-big government and no I am not milita, though I see nothing wrong with those who choose to join there local state milita's.

2. Here is where you go from beyond the realm of a numbskull to a clear cut *******.

You attack the fact that I am a atheist, as someone who has no morals just because I know there is no god or higher power or santa claus or easter bunny or father time, just because you are a fool that believes in the occult, fairy tales, and the hilarous idea of god and christian dogma does not make you any more moral than me, in fact IMHO it makes you a fool, but that is despite the point.

Morals are passed down from one's family and one's enviroment not a make believe gray haired white retard who you think floats around above you on a cloud.

You want to see a higher power, you see it everyday you stand in front of the mirror to brush your teeth, its that simple.

[red_fists]

Originally posted by umgong

Red Fists?
Most of the guys I know are average folks who might go to the range twice a year or maybe a little more. A couple of them are competition guys, but most of them are just average people.
Almost all of them can shuck that pistol out of its concealed holster in one (1) second or less. I believe the average time is .5 or 1/2 a second. Is that too slow?

Was that measured in a real situation or on a Gun range?
Or does that also apply to the averge Lady that carries her gun in the Purse.

Whipping your Gun out becomes a different game when you are surrounded by 3 armed muggers.

Yes, they are good for home defense, but for street survival I would not stake my life on it.
I am not against guns perse, but still feel that they are overrated.
I also believe that all weapons should be carried openly.
And, yes, I used to carry one, but not anymore.

Peace.

[red_fists]

Another atheist here.

BTW, you can send me to hell or tell me that I worship the Devil.
Since I don't accept God I don't accept the concept of Hell or the Devil either.

[Dark Knight]

"Was that measured in a real situation or on a Gun range?
Or does that also apply to the averge Lady that carries her gun in the Purse."

The average for people who go through the courses (Gunsite, Thunder ranch...) is 2 seconds for draw and double tap (Two Shots). Thats not the police ofiicer or competitior, thats the person who went through a self defense class.

Also there are many very nice designs for holsters that are purses.

"Whipping your Gun out becomes a different game when you are surrounded by 3 armed muggers. "

Shoot the first one and the other two prb dont want to play.

"Yes, they are good for home defense, but for street survival I would not stake my life on it. "

So when they ask for your wallet, you reach back to the inside the waisteband holster, draw out the 45 and stop the robbery right then.

[red_fists]

Originally posted by Dark Knight

So when they ask for your wallet, you reach back to the inside the waisteband holster, draw out the 45 and stop the robbery right then.

Not in my Experience.
When I was mucked 2 Guys grapped my arms from behind while the 3rd held a Knife to my Throat. and started to search me for Wallet, Car keys, Bank Cards and a Gun.

If I had packed in that situation I would be dead now, as in that place the Mugger and Hijackers will even shoot a co-operating victim with any Gun they find.

And, yes, in that Country carrying a gun was a s common as muck.
Peace.

[wushu chik]

Hey guys...i think this is another time to agree to disagree.

[red_fists]

Wen.

Nobody is fighting, just diferent experience levels.

[The Willow Sword]

talk about carbon copy responses,,,dont you think that i ahvent heard your rap many times before?
and one other thing,,WHO says that I AM a Christian? YOU. you dont have to be a christian to be a spiritual person with morals and values.
athiests believe in nothing but themselves and nothing outside of themselves,,,,that is why i think that it is not a good thing for people with no spiritual morals or values to have a gun.
grey mystic: agnostic huh? well i have no problems with folks who still question thier spiritual path as does the agnostic mindset,,but who am i to say whats right spiritually and whats not. what i DO know is that individuals that cannot go beyond themselves to see the bigger picture in this mystery we call life ,I THINK ,have a hard time dealing with life than someone who ,say ,is a full blown jesus freak.(which i am not) my spirituality is non of anyones buisiness,,,,but you Black jack brought it up to me cause i made a reference to god given right to own guns. which brings me back to my original statement in this whole thing let ME PUT IT IN CAPS FOR YOU.

I AM A GUN ADVOCATE,,I ADVOCATE THE LEGAL CARRYING AND STORAGE IN THE HOME OF A FIREARM FOR PERSONAL AND HOME SELF DEFENSE.
I JUST DO NOT LIKE THAT IT HAS COME TO THIS,,,AND I DO NOT LIKE THE MENTALITY IN THIS COUNTRY THAT IT IS COOL TO HAVE A GUN OR TO COMPLAIN AND MOAN ABOUT "GUN OWNERS RIGHTS" .
I DO SUPPORT REGULATION OF WHO IS TO OWN A GUN,,AND IF YOU CAN PASS THE TEST AND CRIMINAL BACKGROUND AND I HOPE THAT THEY INCLUDE A PSYCH TEST WITH THAT,,THEN YOU HAVE EARNED THE RIGHT. NOT BECAUSE SOME OLD LAW WROTE UP 250 YEARS AGO SAID THAT YOU COULD BECAUsE THEY WERE BESEIGED BY A FOREIGN POWER.
its like saying that you have a RIGHT to smoke and kill yourself and subject everyone else around you to that smoke when YOU KNOW THAT IT HARMS YOU AND OTHERS. the laws in this country were NOT made up so that an individual can be above another or below. or that you can blindly go and do whatever it is that you want at the expense of the people the environment and the creatures that exist with us.

Many Respects,,,The Willow Sword