Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 56

Thread: Push hands

  1. #1

    Push hands

    Heres a cool clip of Feng Zhiqiang

    http://www2.sinowushu.com/taiji_04.ram

    For those who don't know who Feng is, well....

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Lostin Austin
    Posts
    854

    thanks!

    Hey, thanks much for letting us know about this clip.
    THe thing I think is so amazing about GM Feng is that you can really tell he uses a lot of soft energy with his hard. It is so evident in his push hands. He throws people miles away with very little effort. This is amazing.
    To me this is amazing, because some of the Chen push hands I've seen (before I saw GM Feng), looked more "external" because it seemed that there was more of the hard energy than the soft.

    Thanks again for the clip.
    123
    The 10 Elements of Choy Lay Fut:
    Kum, Na, Gwa, Sau, Chop, Pow, Kup, Biu, Ding, Jong

    The 13 Principles of Taijiquan:
    Ward Off, Roll Back, Press, Push, Pluck, Elbow, Shoulder, Split, Forward, Back, Left, Right, Central Equilibrium

    And it doesn't hurt to practice stuff from:
    Mounts, Guards, and Side Mounts!


    Austin Kung-Fu Academy

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    315
    Great clip

  4. #4

    Wink .

    Great sound effects too!

  5. #5
    This clip comes from a documentary called "This is Kung Fu" which
    features tons of wushu demos and some taiji too. It's a lot of fun
    to watch.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    299
    Cool clip he's got alot of power to my untrained eye it didnt look like any of his partners had any intention of anything but to be a dummy tho.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    299
    Cool clip he's got alot of power to my untrained eye, it would be interesting to see what he does if his partners had any intention other then being a dummy.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    1,400

    Push hands?

    Hard or soft?
    Fast or slow?
    Fixed or free?
    Step or no step?
    Blended or shaken?

    Just curious what people prefer, i like to mix methods but im partial to particulars like everyone else

    Anyone want to share some push hands experiences?

    Ive been easily beaten by several old Wu style masters which was a good learning experience. They where all quite different though and my own sifu is different again. Its made me a bit more interested in the different approches to Toi Shao and what people use it to develop.

    Just looking for general examples on how Toi Shao is utalised in different peoples training.
    Up and down, forward and backward, left and right, its all the same. All of this is done with the mind, not externaly.
    ------------------------------------
    Shaped dragon and looking monkey, sitting tiger and turning eagle.


    "I wonder how they would do against jon's no-tension fu. I bet they'd do REALLY WELL."
    - Huang Kai Vun

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    1,400
    Hmm either no one likes to talk about push hands or I havent been very clear in my post.
    Im not looking for anything to direct just hoping to start a general discussion on some of the different push hands practices.


    Maybe just a simple question to start with.

    Is fixed step push hands a limited training method?
    In other words should fixed step be given up in favor of free form push hands when the level of skill is right?

    Im a bit of a fan of fixed step although i certainly love playing freestyle.


    Also does anyone else here incorporate a bit of light striking in there push hands?
    Up and down, forward and backward, left and right, its all the same. All of this is done with the mind, not externaly.
    ------------------------------------
    Shaped dragon and looking monkey, sitting tiger and turning eagle.


    "I wonder how they would do against jon's no-tension fu. I bet they'd do REALLY WELL."
    - Huang Kai Vun

  10. #10
    At my school we do alot of free style fixed step and moving push hands where there is a circle and you have to get the guy out of it or toss him to the floor. Sometimes we allow sweeps like in judo. Plus we have five push hand paterns.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    3,959
    i dunno... depends what you are doing... to learn a principle things may be fixed and arranged, but after that usually anything goes

    dawood
    Peace is not the product of terror or fear.
    Peace is not the silence of cemeteries.
    Peace is not the silent result of violent repression.
    Peace is the generous, tranquil contribution of all to the good of all.
    Peace is dynamism. Peace is generosity.
    It is right and it is duty.

  12. #12

    Push Hands

    Jon, Fixed push hands would be the starting point. Working on your ward-off and push, single hand, then double hand, of course with a partner that will give you good feedback on what they feel from your push, split, etc. Also, stationary two person Chan SSu Jing exercises to fine tune your push hands. You have to be willing "to invest in lost". Basically, don't let winning against somebody overcome your learning. Easy to say, but hard to do. Go to a push hands competition and you'll see. Moving push hands should come much later. You'll then start using your stepping from the forms combined with the techniques to deal with attacks in a flowing manner. Somebody uses roll-back, you feel the pull rotate the elbow down move into snake creeps down.
    It can keep moving as long as both players are at same skill level.
    Of course it could end with one reaction, but the flowing is important to develope. Later Chin Na's are used, strikes etc. My 2 cents.

    V/r

    Steve M.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Sunnyvale CA
    Posts
    8

    Re: Push hands?

    Most people like to move quickly to free style and then donít go back to practicing the patterns.
    I like practicing the basics. I always go back to basic training.
    A lot of time on stationary single and double hand patterns. If your feet move, you have lost your balance.
    Training progression in fixed step with two-person routines helps build for free fixed step. Again you go back to these training exercises as part of you over all routines.
    Fixed pattern circular stepping with double hand patterns help build for free form push.
    For me itís really the training exercises that make you skilled. I also believe that you can learn more from training with a equally skilled partner then from touching hands a few times with a great master.

    Have a good practice

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    1,400
    Thanks for the advice people


    I like the basic two handed fixed form push hands for training and i like the free form free stepping push hands for turning up the tempo and trying out a few tricks

    Still as others have stated i tend to always refer back to fixed step when im trying to work out structure and flow refinements.

    I also seem to be at a really annoying skill level.

    I thought i was doing ok becouse i can beat most of my training partners and most of the other people i had pushed with havent been that much chop.
    Then suddenly im confronted with some guys of a 'high' level who also enjoyed showing me what they could do.
    Next thing i know my own sifu starts turning up the pace so as to keep me on my toes.
    Its all been really fun and ive really enjoyed being exposed to the 'next' level but some things ive noticed are kinda odd.

    There seems to be quite a difference in approch and mindset used in push hands.

    Two of the masters i met whom both had the same teacher at different times had vastly different methods. One felt hard (although not overtly) and would be projecting nearly constantly so that pushing on him felt like trying to push against a hard coiled spring.
    The other master with the same teacher was increadibly soft and seemed to just lead your power strait off into nothing before adding a little of his own and sending you sprawling to regain your balance.
    Up and down, forward and backward, left and right, its all the same. All of this is done with the mind, not externaly.
    ------------------------------------
    Shaped dragon and looking monkey, sitting tiger and turning eagle.


    "I wonder how they would do against jon's no-tension fu. I bet they'd do REALLY WELL."
    - Huang Kai Vun

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Sunnyvale CA
    Posts
    8
    My Sifu and his brother, who have trained together through childhood, have similar differences as you described between the two masters. They are just using different skills for which they feel better at. This could also change depending on who they push with. We are all different, applying the same principles, of which there are many. We also do light striking, more like touching the body. This usually happens when you break or loose contact. And as indicated in the post from Steve, this could open up opportunities for Chin Na

    Mike

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •