fraudulent schools

[Din Gao]

Good point.

The benefit of being in NYC is that it is there. You just have to turn over a few stones to find it. Take your time and do the research. Makes it all worthwhile I guess.

Funny thing was that there was a really good Sifu right around the corner from that school (literally).

[dezhen2001]

that linked article was really freaky man! Never knew sheit was as bad as that over in the US! No wonder some ppl were so freaked out before...

david

[Hai_To]

There is lesson to be learned in all of this. Do your homework. Don't just join a school because the uniforms look pretty or the school is nice or the teacher looks really cool. Watch a class, take a trial class and ask questions. Any legitimate school would be more than willing to answer any of your questions.

As for Bo Law (my two cents worth), Paul Koh was a very good Hung Gar practitioner and teacher back in the mid to late 90's. Unfortunately, somewhere along the road he lost his way. He decided to no longer teach Hung Gar. He now teaches a mixture of Fu Jow Pai, 5 Animals, Shaolin (Lohan & Tong Bei) and Mantis. Its a shame really. Sometimes things are sacrificed on the altar of expedience.

[Din Gao]

Hai_To,

Did you study there as well? It would appear that there are more refugees here then I thought.

That is what killed me. I could see that the man had skill (IMO) but it just didn't appear to be what was taught. Maybe it was the inability to grasp the material, though I doubt it.

In my time there, I "learned" something like 25 - 30 forms in 2+ years. That is more then the entire curriculum of my new school where I'll spend months on the basics before ever learning a form (whcih is fine with me). Students were constantly pushed to learn more and more without really developing an understanding of the material they were being taught.

Belts and sashes, though supposedly meaningless, were openly promoted. It basically created a bad atmosphere. Senior students barely able to sit in a horse stance or transfer between stances.

Oh well, I said I wouldn't fall into this but there I go... (A lack of self-restraint)

[Ray Pina]

Din Goa, it took me nearly a year to get hooked up with my master. His name kept coming up over and over, but it took me loosing to one of his students to buy into the internal -- that there was nothing soft about that defeat, probbably the most valuable in my life.

I found another one of his students through a friend. He wouldn't take me right off the bat, had to take him out to eat a few times so he could get to know me.

But I wasn't happy with that, so I looked on my own too. Up and down Chinatown. Asking everyone and everyhwere. Even the people at BLT that I'm kind of cool with didn't help, sent me to his old school.

Finally my friend (now) came through. Turns out my teacher is mad cool and open and would have taken me right off the bad. He's only turned a few away for being too stupid and arogant.

If you're truly interested, let me know. I'll bring you buy. Just keep an open mind. Sometimes material is kept very basic when guests are around. What we do is not complex. A few core shapes, movements ideas. So we do not let the cat out of the bad so easily.

Honestly, the guy who beat me showed me some Hsing-I shielding (tiger hands) and it instantly changed my fighting before even seeing my master. Just getting that little clue -- wow.

[Ray Pina]

PS, I'll ad this, and take it for what its worth:

This man is the best I've ever seen. Ever! I started MA when I was 4. Seen a lot. I was hitting tournaments back in the day of, what's his name, Don Nagel, and all those old timers. Been up and down the coast. When my family vacationed, we checked ahead in advance to find a school that I could train at while away.

That was my first intro to phony balony kung fu in Fla. Real bad.

Anyway, now I'm 28. I've studied Hung Gar, Wing Chun, S. Mantis and mostly Issin-Ryu (my entire childhhod upt to HS and college).

My master, at 60, will put the gloves on and beat ya senseless. With technique. He's not big, he's just really good.

He's an article by Rober Chu talking about him back in the day -- and he has inherited that pole system being spoken about: http://www.wingchunkuen.com/chusauli...ungfumun.shtml

[Hai_To]

Din Gao,

Yes, I did attend Bo Law for a while. I left at the beginning of this year. I will give them credit, I got back into shape and my flexibility is much better than it has been in a long time. However, you are right, the atmosphere there was not very conducive to learning. There was definitely a "hurry up, you're falling behind" mentality. Too much material too fast is a problem. You were never given any time to digest anything.

Now with the mixture of styles, its was very difficult to learn anything. If there was a sequence of learning, that would be fine (though personnally I found the sheer volume of material to be questionable). For example, if you were to learn 5 Animals and then move on to Fu Jow Pai that would make sense. Unfortunately, you are learning Shaolin, 5 Animals, Mantis and Fu Jow Pai (along with weapons) concurrently.

On a personal level, I like Paul. He always treated me very well. As a Sifu, there is a lot left to be desired. Am I bitter about my time there? I don't think so (at least not consciously). Would I recommend the school to somebody? I'd have to say no.

I'll treat it as a learning experience. In any event, I'm much happier in my new school.

[Din Gao]

Hai_To,

I will PM you.

Evolution Fist,

Thank you for the offer. I really appreciate it. I heard very good things about your Sifu. I may take you up on that offer when my schedule opens up. Right now it is kind of crazy.

[Hai_To]

Din_Gao,

I didn't realize there were more of us out there. We should compare war stories.

EvolutionFist,

In my quest for a new school, I looked at Mr. Chan. All I can say is "wow". He may be 60, but he certainly doesn't look it. He is also one of the most friendly and engaging people I've ever met. Plus he is highly skilled. He is what a Sifu should be.

[108kuen]

Great article you linked......your sifu sounds like quite a man.

[Ray Pina]

I consider it a true God send to be training with him.

I've glipmsed some of his pole and sword work -- WOW! Can't wait to get back to that. Right now we are 100% focused on the hand to hand. Theory, concepts, principles and applying them. Doing some boxing as of late.

I don't know about my training brothers, but I'm working to bring E-chuan out there. Don't want to do it till I'm reday. You've seen him, pretty tall shoes to fiill. But this is too important to end there, it has to continue. Sometimes I question why all this work. But I love it, and if I who love it doesn't do it, who will. In the end its a joy and privelage.

He's the best teacher I ever had no question about it. I feel funny writing it though because everybody should feel that way about their teacher.

[begby]

I visited SiFu Chan's school as well with a friend who was looking for a new school.
Although, I'm quite happy at my new school, I have to say...he's a great guy. He actually sat there and spoke to us for about an hour before his class started.(not many people would do that) At bo law, one had to schedule an appointment to ask the sifu the simplest of questions
He compared different fighting concepts, strategies, etc etc. He really knows what he is talking about. On some of the techniques he demonstrated on me, I could really feel his internal power. I was definitely impressed.

The school was like 20 degrees though! Freezing!

[begby]

BTW DinGao/Hai To...Bo Law was the school I was talking about in my initial post.

To all in the greater NY area...avoid it like the plague.
If you're only goal is to get in shape, then it may be OK...just be on the lookout for projectile weapons accidentally flying out of beginners' hands!

[Hai_To]

LOL!

Just to make things clear. Its not like Bo Law is the 7th Circle of Hell. It has become a glorified health club (a very expensive health club). Similar to those "new age" Tai Chi schools that don't worry about any martial applications. It was good once. Perhaps it can be good again. Though Paul will have to do some soul searching before that happens.

[Din Gao]

From what I understand, quite a few people have left and mostly for the same reasons. I know of six that you may be familiar with. Varying levels of committment and time spent.

You always have a high level of turnover among the newbies at any school but these are supposedly the more senior people. People who had skill and were frustrated with an environment that deteriorated before their eyes. Most have gone on to good schools. Others are just beginning to search.