Att: Sihing73

[Peter Aarts]

Why is my thread being deleted for the second time? I mean "2 more masters leave EWTO"? Just coincidence again or something else?

Peter


Sihing73:
Reacting to your private mail:

Indeed I didn´t post the thread on the VTA forum! I even didn´t know it´s on there!
You think referring to a new website on wich people are saying they are founding a new organisation would add nothing of any interest to this forum?
I don´t agree!
As I´m indeed from an organisation that also left the EWTO, I´m not stating anything, as you could´ve read in the thread.
That these new developments are of great interest for people within the EWTO, you can read on the german forum, were this is being discussed openly!
As you may have a personal relationship with mr. Kernspecht, it doesn´t mean I can´t referre to these new happenings!

Like to hear your point of view.

Peter.

[Botha]

I think this development has great news interest. It is concerning many people if you know that the EWTO is the largest wingchun organisation worldwide. It is the largest because of the many schools and students in Germany. And even in Germany people are openly discussing this subject.
Look at:

www.wt4um.de

I think it's strange to delete this thread because i can find several threads on this forum with less information or news interest than this one.

Botha

[Peter Aarts]

quote from Sihing73:

Anyhow, the thread does nothing to promote the art of Wing Chun. Rather, it is more likely to cause bad feelings and cause strife.

So this is how you think about mentioning a new Wing Chun organisation is being founded?

Instead of taking the chance of stirring up trouble I figure it is better to be safe than sorry.

We have been through this before. As you´ve seen from the responses the last two times I tried to post this thread, nobody felt offended or was even sarcastic about it. Even then you should take your measures against these kind of responses, I believe. Not in advance.

Feel free to reply but I think this is clear enough.

Not at all. I´m sorry.

Peter.

[Sihing73]

Hi Peter,

I replied to you and gave you an opportunity to reply to me. I stated my position clearly.

From the start on this forum you have seemed to be promoting your own ends. I am hardly surprised that "Botha" has immediatly jumped onto your wagon in this thread. Nice coincidence that he was able to get on board so quickly, huh,

Anyhow as I stated your post does not seem to be intended to advise people of "news". You have made it quite clear in the past, both in PM and e-mails to me, which I could copy here as well , your dislike of the EWTO. You seem to relish any problems which this organization has and seem to like to bring them to the attention of others. What, I ask, does this do to promote the art of Wing Chun? Instead you take a bad or less than desirible situation and attempt to stir the pot a bit. Who knows maybe some of those leaving will now learn of your "organization" and wish to become a part of it, at least they will learn of the many "names" which put down the EWTO and promote your group on the various boards of the internet.

You show the same inclination to cause trouble as your actions with VTS and your "innocent" references to the "machine" time and again. Perhaps you think you are fooling people and maybe you are; however I have come to believe that you are self serving and take great pleasure in the troubles of others. In particular the problems of the EWTO which is yor former organization, prior to your Sifu leaving and forming his own group. This, to me, shows a complete lack of respect and a lack of any understanding of respect as taught in the kwoon.

I left the WT org several years ago for my own reasons. However, I do not take pleasure in any past, current or future problems of that, or any other organization. I also have not openly gloated over anyone elses problems. Nor have I posted things in a blatant attempt to undermine those that remain. Nor to obtain a negative reaction about someone else or thier lineage.

I replied to your question. You chose to take a Private Message, at least some parts of it the parts I guess you figured would serve your ends, and post in public rather than reply by either PM or e-mail. This in itself says something of your ethics and intentions. I tried to save you the embarassment of being told publically that your "agenda" of posting veiled and snide slights of any organization would not be acceptable.

I hope that is clear enough for you as I am unable to draw you a picture in this medium

Peace,

Dave

[Alpha Dog]

Maybe Peter's dislike for EWTO, if that is true, is supportable -- why not try to counter the argument and let others make up their own minds? I guess it's easier to win an argument when you can just hit delete!

[Sihing73]

Hi Alpha Dog,

The problem with arguing involving lineage is that it tends to degenerate into insults and other negative things. In some cases differences can be discussed, as can be shown in the recent thread; "Lineage" as well as the thread "Question on TWC" and several others throughout the forum. Some of the comments were good and some were not. However, the topic starters did not have or show a past tendency to belittle any organization.

Not so with our friend "Peter". Peter has gone out of his way to degrade several others. In particular he has seemed to take great pride in the problems of the EWTO. He has sent me several e-mails and Private Messages detailing this fact. I simply question his motivation for posting this topic in the first place. If it is posted in the intention of pointing out the troubles and perhaps adding to them, of anyone else then that seems a poor reason to post at all. Of course, everyone is open to their own interpretation. Most of the responses, were of the type:
1) Hey those guys look funny
2) Is this site even in English
3) That website is bad on the eyes

While you may see some value in this I would be curious in how it did anything to move the art forward. Perhaps you could explain that to me. Instead, it seemed designed to point out the problems of the EWTO, two masters(?) leaving and pointing to a site which would not be very informative to the majority of members here due to a difference in language and design.

As to supporting the EWTO I can assure you that is not my intention. I have no ties with Keith Kernsprecht nor the EWTO. Still, I do not relish any difficulties they may be having at the moment.

Of course, I could simply delete everything which I did not like. However, if I did that then there would be much less, if any, topics left on this board at all. I simply do not relish those that take pleasure in the misfortunes of others.

Peace,

Dave

[Alpha Dog]

A good friend of mine told me once, "If you wanna learn to play better tennis, move to Florida."

If you don't like the majority of posts here, why do you stay?

[red5angel]

UhOh!

Sounds like Peter has been trusted as a troll!

[Peter Aarts]

Sihing73

You have made it clear in the past, both in PM en e-mails to me, wich I could copy here as well, your dislike of the EWTO

He, I never went public you know. As you said, just in PM en e-mails to you. It was you who toke my private mail addressed to you to mr. Kernspecht.
In fact I does not have much up with the EWTO, but I don´t dislike it. That´s what you make out of it! Hé, my roots are within the EWTO.

Instead you take a bad or less desirible situation and attempt to stir the pot a bit

Hé, I just mentioned developments of great interest are going on in Germany. Again look at the german forum, (Botha´s thread), where is being discussed openly. This is not the first time I say this to you: You always want to see the negative side of something being said.

Who knows some of those leaving will now join your "organization" and wish to become part of it

I never mentioned "my organisation" on this forum. In the thread "wingtsun clips" I referred only to a clip. In fact, according to my profile, I practise some "Wing Tzun". An organistion I never heard of. So, this doesn´t stroke with your claim.

[Peter Aarts]

... and what about those seminar invitations on this forum?

You show the same inclination with your action with VTS and your "innocent" references to the machine time and time again

You´re the only one who is still being upset. Anyhow, this has nothing to do with this thread.


I think your a personal friend of mr. Kernspecht and you see it as your duty to avoid any comment that eventually could lead to comments about him or his organisation. If so, then your function on this forum should be discussed.

[yuanfen]

I think this development has great news interest. It is concerning many people if you know that the EWTO is the largest wingchun organisation worldwide.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Life has been fair Botha- despite the deletion ;your item got its minutes of fame. FWIW---to lots of non ewto folks the size of ewto as a non charitable organization...its additions and subtractions do little to explain the art of wing chun.

On the logic of censorship on this forum--- banning whipping hand provides the mark --pro or con.

[dezhen2001]

Sorry if my comment on 'hurting your eyes' ruffled a few feathers. I was making reference to the flashing rainbow coloured background on part of the site, in a humourous manner (though it obviously wasn't clear enough ).

david

[Peter Aarts]

In particular he has seemed to take great pride in the problems of the EWTO. He has sent me several e-mails and Private Messages detailing this fact

My PM´s to you started about Alan Fong. Then I explained my relation with Alan to you. About starting a new organisation next to the EWTO in Holland. You explained this as a"lack of respect". I never spoke bad about the EWTO, just mentioned the differences. Again you saw this as critisism. I also have all the copies of the mails.

The fact that I do this "en public" is that you doesn´t answer my PM´s.

"Peter"

[Peter Aarts]

From the start on this forum you have seemed to be promoting your own ends. I´m hardly surprised that "Botha" immediately jumped onto your wagon in this thread. Nice coincidence that he was able to get on board so quickly, huh.

It was Botha who told me the thread was being deleted. I never denied I didn´t know Botha. I even mentioned this to you in a PM, as you couldn´t give it a rest. For you and to whom it may concern Botha is my cousin!!!!!!!!!! This also explains the same IP in the beginning as he then paid me a visit..A thing I never heard you mention again, because of the different IP´s.

I must say you jump to your conclusions too soon. And as a moderator you´re very suggestive.

Peter.

[Botha]

Well Dave,
What are you actually trying to say by me jumping on the wagon so quickly??

First of all we live in the same time zone
Second the thread started by Peter is one concerning myself too.

I'm not an active member of the EWTO, but I try once in a while to attend some EWTO seminars in Germany. That's how I met the both masters mentioned in the thread. So for the first time in a while there was a thread i found surprising and worth to comment. And now you begin to accuse me ( of what?)

BTW EWTO developments in Germany are quite interesting for us dutch because Germany i'sn't that far away. Even the headman of the Dutch branch of the EWTO is a German.

Maybe you just don't like Dutchmen!