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Thread: LaiSee and Lion Dance traid related?

  1. #1
    hasayfu Guest

    LaiSee and Lion Dance traid related?

    How many people believe that using LaiSee in a Lion Dance is a Triad(AKA gangster)Ritual or a form of extortion?

    FYI, LaiSee are sometimes called Hung Bao or Red Envelopes and you see them often around chinese new years. People put "lucky money" in them and it can used to feed the lions or on the Choi Chang.

  2. #2
    Kung Lek Guest
    We had a really long topic going on this point at a liondance mailing list that I and others here are members of.

    While it may likely have occured (extortion via Lion Dance), this is definitely not the root of Lai See or the choi chiang aspects of Lion Dance.


    Kung Lek

  3. #3
    fiercest tiger Guest

    lia see

    spose giving your sifu a red pack is extortion too! well what is the world coming to, they dont have to give lia see if they dont want to!


  4. #4
    hasayfu Guest

    why the poll?

    As Kung Lek said, this came up on the lion dance email list. I was, to say the least, shocked and apalled at the number of people who not only believed this but advocated not using LaiSee with the lion dance. This from a list of lion dancers!

    I just wanted to see what the southern martial community thought of this. At first I thought it was one uneducated voice but there were so many believers that I wanted to know if I was the minority opinion. Hence the poll.

    thank you for participating.

  5. #5
    Paul Skrypichayko Guest
    Unfortunately, I deleted all my lion dance email from the LD mailing list.

    I've heard about street gangs using the lion dance as a guise for extortion (protection money, drug money, gambling debts, etc.). Because the money is supposedly for "lion dance" purposes, it's difficult to prove what the money is really for.

  6. #6
    Gold Horse Dragon Guest

    Lai Si


    Gangs using Lai Si given at Lion Dance is a very inefficient way to extort money. It may have happened the odd time...but think about it - extortion is a weekly, bi-weekly or monthly thing, and it would indeed be suspicious and uncalled for to do Lion Dance that often. On the greater whole Lai Si is given by a business for a performance well done by a kung-fu school and/or Lion Dance group.
    All the Best!

  7. #7
    fukien Guest

    Myths and bull

    The Lion Dance is routinely used as a tool of extortion thoughout Asia.

    Those of you who think otherwise probably think the Mafia is a figment of the Government's imagination.

    While the roots of it are honorable, THE FACT IS, liondancing IS used as tool for extortionists here in
    America and in Asia. For example, in Hong Kong during the Chinese New Year, there are posters all
    over and TV ads warning people to be aware of extortionists using liondancing as a "front".

    It makes me sick that Americans think that all Gung-Fu "Masters" have a higher social concience,
    are more honorable, and more repsectable than the average Joe. This is BULL.

    Well, I hate to break your bubble, but THERE IS NO CORELATION BETWEEN MARTIAL SKILL
    (real or precieved) AND "HONORABLE" BEHAVIOR.

    Knowing and/or being skilled in Gung-Fu is no indication of a man's true character.

    You all have watched too many movies.

    There are and have been, many "Masters" who have been convicted of felonies,
    run bull "schools" and are just not good people, but since they profess to be "SIFU'S"
    and/or "MASTERS", we as a people are blind to the REALITY of their true character.

    We all have watched too many movies.

    HOOK, LINE & SINKER we swallow the crap that is fed us, without looking into the
    TRUE background and character of those who would hold us up to "Protocols" and
    other Eastern "Hocus-Pocus".



  8. #8
    Kung Lek Guest
    yeesh, fukien, i thin dat you is bein a bit cynical.

    I'll bet for every "extortion" lion dance "team", there are 50 teams that do it better and do lion dance for exactly the reasons it was meant to be done for.

    Point being, people dress up as priests to smuggle drugs, people dress up as santa claus to defraud the public, yada yada yada, the criminal element in any society will attempt to blend in so as not to be noticed.

    So chill out, you sound real bitter, like you have personally had a bad experience with an evil sifu, which there are very few of, and those who call themselves "sifu" without taking on the true responsibility of being one only fool themselves.

    Besides, Lion Dance is a lousy cover! hahaha

    "ok here's the plan, we're going to old man wongs to get money from him, you bang this drum as loud as you can, I'll whack this gong, jimmy will crash the symbols and tony and ralphie here will dress up in da giant lion puppet and we'll sneak in, catch him unaware and get him to give us the dough"!

    sounds like the three stooges doesn't it? hahahaha.


    Kung Lek

  9. #9
    Stumblefist Guest

    Lion Dance Teams in old Chinatown

    Well first of all where is the e-mail discussion list? like to have a look.
    My old chintown club, well whenever ther is a parade through chinatown with our team the merchants who give money get a special performance in the way the lion "eats" the money, old friends and special associates get more special attention. In return for the "hong bao" the merchant usually is handed a invitation for the lavish banquet that evening. The cost of the banquet is quite expensive. It's about a break-even proposition. The whole thing is done because the community wants it and the merchants believe somehow it will be lucky for them or they just want to maintain tradition and community ties. At the banquet the businessmen are maintaining their community connections. The clug and team is an essential part of the community.
    The lion dance team is a money-maker for the club in other respects, many businesses and individuals hire the team to bring them personal luck or for some community event. In that respect it is a straight business and straight for-hire event. Also the team might be needed for a non-commercial event, like a city parade, a inter-club meet or wlecoming a visiting sifu or diplomat from china.
    I've always thought that the practice could have derived from some kind of extortion procedure in old china although that doesn't have much to do with the New World that i know about.
    As far as extorting money goes, it happens in much more straightforward ways in modern chinatown.

  10. #10
    Santa Claus Guest
    "......People dress up as santa claus to defraud the public, yada yada yada, the criminal element in any society will attempt to blend in so as not to be noticed"

    Hey Kung Lek, please leave me out of this discussion. I'm not a triadmember.


  11. #11
    WongFeHung Guest
    Santa, you may not be a triad member, but you are a freakin criminal. First you know when I'm sleeping, you know when I'm awake-what are ya some kind of pervert peeping tom stalker? or Big Brother? You wear a red suit and have long hair and a beard-obviously some commie hippy dirtbag type-and btw, what IS in that pipe that you're smoking? You come into my house at night? Are you some kind of ninja terrorist? or a stalker? I don't like you, never did, and I hope you come down my chimminy 'cause it goes into our oil burner! Die you old ****! (never did get that firetruck-I hate you)

  12. #12
    Santa Claus Guest
    Ho - ho - ho
    Hey Tentigers, show some respect.
    1. I'm older than you,
    2. I'm a dinosaur myself,
    3. and also practice Hung Gar*.

    * Studied in the Southern Siu Lam Monastery under Chi Sin together with Hung Hei Kwun, some few hundred years ago.

    By the way, in my pipe is some real good Afghany
    hash, sometimes Citral too. I'll put some peaces into your chimney next time when I'm around.


  13. #13
    Stumblefist Guest

    Satana Ninja Santa

    He SEES you when you're sleeping
    He KNOWS when you're awake
    He KNOWS whether you've been bad or good
    So you BETTER BE GOOD for goodness sakes

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Fremont, CA, U.S.A.

    Tea laisee for 2020

    New yum cha, butterfly themed HK$20, HK$50 notes to be released in time for lai see to insure widest circulation, HKMA says
    New notes to arrive on January 14, the same day customers can start exchanging notes for lai see
    The HK$20 notes will be themed around tea gatherings, while the HK$50 notes will feature butterflies
    Enoch Yiu
    Published: 8:00am, 2 Jan, 2020

    The new HK$20 and HK$50 notes are presented during a press conference by the Hong Kong Monetary Authority. Photo: Winson Wong

    The Hong Kong Monetary Authority will launch new HK$20 and HK$50 notes on January 14, the same day customers can start exchanging old notes for new currency in preparation for Lunar New Year, it said on Wednesday.
    The notes will be released by the city’s three note-issuing banks, HSBC, Standard Chartered Bank and Bank of China (Hong Kong).
    The HK$20 notes will be themed around yum cha, or tea gatherings, while the HK$50 notes will feature butterflies. Of the 2.36 billion banknotes in circulation in Hong Kong worth a combined HK$503.9 billion (US$64.5 billion), the HK$20 notes represent the highest share at 35.7 per cent, while the HK$50 dollar notes represent 10.4 per cent.
    “The HK$20 banknote is the most circulated banknote in Hong Kong, and is part of the lives of Hong Kong people. Similarly, yum cha is a favourite [activity], as many Hongkongers like to go and enjoy dim sum lunches and tea with their family and friends. This is why we picked yum cha as the theme for the HK$20 banknotes,” Edmond Lau, the HKMA’s senior executive director, said.
    “We chose to launch the new HK$20 and HK$50 banknotes on the same day the public can go to the banks to exchange notes for lai see money, as this is an effective way of widely circulating the new notes,” he added.
    Lai see money is handed out to children and young people who are unmarried during the Lunar New Year holiday, and cash – usually HK$20 and HK$50 notes – is preferred despite the growing popularity of digital payments. According to some estimates, at least HK$10 billion in lai see changes hands each Lunar New Year holiday.

    SCMP Graphics

    Every year, the city’s three note-issuing banks prepare on average 350 million notes – including 55 per cent newly printed notes – in all denominations for lai see, according to HKMA statistics. These banks have printed a combined 260 million of the new HK$20 notes and 85 million of the new HK$50 notes, which Lau said were sufficient to meet the public’s needs.
    The two new notes are the latest and last batch to be issued under the 2018 design series. The HKMA announced the designs of the new banknotes with the latest security features in 2018, but has launched them at different times.
    The HK$1,000 note that celebrates Hong Kong as a smart international financial centre was launched in December 2018, the HK$500 note that features the city’s natural beauty was introduced in February 2019, while the HK$100 note featuring Cantonese opera was launched in September last year.
    Lau said the more than 240 types of butterflies found in Hong Kong were the inspiration for the new HK$50 notes. While the HKMA decides on security features and sets the theme, the three note-issuing banks come up with the designs.
    Older notes will continue to be legal tender, Lau added.
    2020 Year of the Rat
    Gene Ching
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Hong Kong
    IMHO, the truth is that using LaiSee in a Lion Dance can be a form of extortion. It still happens especially during the Chinese New Year holiday in the city where I resides.


    Hong Kong

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