I got a question...

[Eight_Triagram_Boxer]

How does a smaller or weaker guy fight with a taller or stronger?

[Grand Taoism]

utilizing tai chi skills..........LOL

[Repulsive Monkey]

when you say weaker and stronger how are you defining that? Weaker or stronger what? Internally?Externally? Words have a funny way of making things unclear.

[Kumkuat]

get stronger

[Eight_Triagram_Boxer]

How does a short person fight with a tall person. Obviously the tall person has the advantage of reach. Also, say there is a guy who is physically stronger and one guy who is weaker... How does the shorter guy with less reach or the weaker guy with no power beat a taller or stronger guy?
Do you get my question now? I know I worded it too simply before.

[bamboo_ leaf]

“Get stronger”

This is very good advice maybe not in the way it was posted.
You don’t fight against the strengths of the other; you utilize the skill and understanding based on your own training.
This is where styles really come into play. Look at how they are structured and the basic premise of the style. All styles have a yielding and ridged applications it’s the nature of our bodies. The styles that tend to use the body and build reactions into it are for the most part called external. Yes, they do involve the mind but the main point is to overcome the others body using training that enhances the physical part of their body.

Other styles work more against the mind, tai chi being one of them. These styles are not easy to understand and take a while to really be able to do it. Why?

I think because there is so much to relearn, most of which is not intuitive to most people. These styles tend to be labeled internal, much of the training is on learning how to use, and sense the different aspects of the mind as well as defining a new way to move the body.

This is called using active awareness verses trained reflexes, the training is very different. IMHO many people have a hard time with it, they are unwilling to give up the idea of strength and overcoming the other.

By getting stronger.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings...

Everyone has vulnerabilities.. Study anatomy, Chinese Medical theories regarding energy channels (meridians), and Tai Chi applications.. Personally, i incorporate Chin Na into Tai Chi applications.. Mostly, though, it depends on "intent" and resolve to manifest your intent into your reality.. If you "intend" to understand Tai Chi to its depths, then you will also need the resolve to see that process through to its ultimate reward, no fear..

Patience is the issue, training is the tool, intent is the power of the spirit, resolve is the power of the flesh.. Tai Chi is is the reward..

Foremost, the ability to negotiate a peaceful alternative to conflict is superior to even the greatest Martial Art (IMHO).. Oh, and Tai Chi is a great negotiating tool.. careful posturing and tactical awareness tends to disarm most agressors before things get out of control.. Even the relaxed nature of a Tai Chi player is disconcerting to a would-be troublemaker..

Be well..

[beautifulvaley]

rip his ears off they look mare attached than they are

Narf Narf

[dfedorko@mindspring.com]

As sMA we are taught to walk a way from a fight but understanding the consequences sometimes that is not always the case. In that case, if you are the shorter guy I would fight with "intent". When I say that I mean being in a certain frame of mind, killer mode. You are no longer the nice, humble and quiet person you always purvey. You are going to kick A_s. But I agree with TaiChiBob learning/knowing anatomy and where to strike will assist you. You have heard the saying, "The bigger they are the harder they fall". It's true.

Damian

[jon]

Im just gonna go the dead honest route
It depends totaly on there level of skill.

I have two guys i train with pretty reguarly and we do a fair amount of sparring and contact work.
One is much taller than me and has a background of Wing Chun plus has been studying internals for a while.
One ive posted about before (thunder palm incident) and he is MUCH larger than me both in hieght and in build.

I can do pretty well against the tall WC guy but his range can definately be an advantage. Particualy considering his footwork is fast and he loves to work the outside gate.
The other guy can simply wipe the floor with me at any time he pleases. He is MUCH more powerfull than me and is simply more skilled.

To be brutal.... IME being larger and well trained internaly is actualy a LARGE advantage. I mean lets be totaly honest for a moment. We generate power by whipping our bodys and allowing the force to flow from relaxed muscles from the floor to the point of impact. If someone is larger and also has this skill they simply have much more to hit with.

So to break it down...
With the taller guy i try to stay almost hip to hip and stop him at the source, i stick to him like glue and always avoid letting him get away from me and forcing me to chase him, which is very ineffective considering his range and speed.
The other guy i use the opposite tactic, i stay small and supple as hell and always attempt to work his back. If i get to close im blown back out so i tend to try and stay just out of reach but always so i can slip in easily.

Look at Yang Chen Fu, he was as big as an elephant is his older days and he could throw people accross the room. He was unbeatable in push hands, do you REALLY think this was all 'chi'?
My honest belief is internal is no different to external in this respect, the more you have the more you hit with. If your unfortuate enough to have to fight someone who is both your match in skill AND much larger than you are - i would not be counting on comming out unscathed.
You can always get lucky but trust me when i say my large parter usualy has me sprawling all over the room. In a real fight he could simply wear my hit and exchange it for one that would instantly flaw me.

[Repulsive Monkey]

Totally disagree with you about Yang Cheng fu. Also with your idea about large bodies generating more Jin cos thats absolute rubbish. Smaller people like Cheng Man Ching was famed for his skill in being able to generate large capacities of Jin on bigger opponents than himself. Many of his students (the Taiwanese ones!!) replicated this too. Their size had nothing to do with the amount of Jin they issued. If that is an external trait then you have proved yourself wrong by saying that internal and external arts are the same.
I agree being well trained internally is a large factor in sucess, but being large is rubbish, it corresponds to nothing at all. I routinely trounce a class mate of mine who is 3 stone heavier and almost a foot taller than me. His body size is not the issue. Nor is anyone elses. If you beleive this then I would seriously query your understanding and experience of internal training.

[Kumkuat]

Actually, if you get 2 people with identical skills (internal, external or whatever), but one is 150 lbs and the other guy is 250 lbs, chances are that the 250 lb guy will usually win. Either that, the 150 lb guy has to work a lot harder to win.

[Nexus]

The equality of skill matters far less then the equality of mental strength and will. The only power you will ever truly posses is willpower, and he who posseses more is more likely to survive conflict.

[bamboo_ leaf]

Jon,


I too think that you have some confusion in this. Size has nothing to do with it, nor strength or speed.

This is the allure of real IMA but I feel few people ever really reach it. They are to busy fighting. this is why there seems to be what i would say is confuison over training methods and uses.
most people on this bbs from what i read base much of their ideas and training on what i would consider extranle practices.


K, I think the whole point is that if you operate from the same ideas as the other(streanght, speed and power) then what you talk about matters. IMA is outside of this again I don’t think many people really get it. At lest this has been my exprince.

really depends on what your after i suppose. i don't say better i just say they are very differnt ideas. as always the one who trains and really undestands his/her art should have the advantage.

[Esteban]

Hi,

"How does one deal with someone who is stronger?" Fwiw, train so that the opponent's strength won't matter, and when you fight, "don't worry about how strong he is. "
"How do you fight someone taller?" That's no secret, in tcc or boxing, just get "closer." If you're courageous enough, get close enough so that you own (win) his center. Then, you can do what you want.
Just my worthless advice,
Respects,
Esteban