What's your opinion about this article?

[blacktaoist]

You make good points in your posts Kevin Wallbridge, that are conforming to fact and truth.

There were no masters there, no high level teachers, just a few practitioners that probably ranked with your average part time Taijiquan players anywhere. Now for their part did the Thai bring their small town nobodies, or did they have their best in the land there, that day at the Rose Garden?


I think thats just what them tai boxers did, got a few part time low level external and internal martial art practitioners to fight him. I just can't see how internal masters or even external masters of Chinese boxing are getting beat down easy by tai boxing. Hey, we are talking about the 1922, doing them times chinese Masters I hear would practice for hours just to kill time, so my Sifu told me.

Have you guys ever seen fighting black kings? Its a movie about a few USA karate fighters that travel to fight within a full-contact tournament in japan.

Anyway they have a few Chinese guys fighting in the tournament, before they fight you, get to see these chinese guys demonstrate their kung fu forms and how they train before a full-contact fight. the forms they were perfoming was hung Gar and Wing chun. If you rent the movie you can see for yourself these guys were low level kung fu practitioners. These practitioners were not the best, but the japanese made it seem like they were.

the movie trys to make it look like Kung Fu is no good for fighting.

[RAF]

http://www.wutangcenter.com/Matute.html

Argue what you may about the tournament, validity etc. etc. etc. but someone with CMA skills beat some Thai boxers. This has been posted before but it is no less valid that what was posted regarding the defeat of the 1922 masters.

Goes round and round and round as though there were some definitive way prove the superiority of a martial arts system.

[Daredevil]

Somewhere on the 'Net is a link about that Baji guy who made the rounds in Thailand .. can't find it for the life of me, though.

Anyway, these things go 'round and 'round. The thai and chinese have a long tradition of fighting between themselves (both sides like to go out and prove their mettle with the other crowd) and as I understand it it tends to go like this: fights in Thailand, Thai boxers win ; fights in China, Chinese guys win.

As another interesting tidbit, once per year the Thai and Burmese send one of their fighters to fight in a no-holds-barred match held on the border between the two nations. The two nations are long time rivals of each other and maybe this is just one of the manifestations of it. Don't know how it usually goes, but I thought it was an interesting thing.

[Daniel Madar]

While I can not guarantee the validity of the first story, I have seen photographic evidence of the second. Details may vary, I am telling it as I remember it

1st story:

At a certain point in time two french Savate players where on martial arts journey. When they arrived in Thailand, they issued a general challenge and worked their way up the ranks of Muay Thai fighters, beating all of them. The king of Thailand was upset and send his general to fight the frenchmen. Unlike the prior players, the General studied Ler Drit. He fought and killed both Frenchmen, and restored national honor.

If true, this story demonstrates several things.
1. Historically, muay thai was not invincible.
2. The older styles of fighting in thailand were/are stronger.

2nd story;

In the early 20th century, and American wrestler went to china and began to defeat chinese martial artists using western wrestling methods...

(sound familiar?)

Finally, he came up against Wu Jien Quan, one of the more famous taiji practitioners. He was defeated, and then became wu jien quan's student.

[lloyd]

Mike Patterson would probably disagree.

I remember reading his comments in a discussion about fighting in Thailand. If I remember correctly then he fought there against Muai Thai fighters during the 70's. He mentioned that the guys are tough and he got much more punishment than he thought he would get but won. Also he said that today the level is not as high as it was back then.

Anyway, I think that there are and were other CMA people who could have won these matches.

[Stacey]

Just as pro baseball player regardless of body type have a certain athletic look, these "kung fu masters" do not. IE- Kung Fu guys have muscular legs, buts and backs...at least. From my perspective, they were bad and the guy would get his ass kicked by anyone. He looked stiff, his chi was in his chest...he wasn't even settled well into his postures.

His low stance could be mobile if he opened his hips.


Muay Thai does typically win against kung fu in kickboxing tournaments. Put the two together in something like sport jujitsu.

effective kung fu has everything that Muay Thai does and more. Even more, yes thats right, more intricacy in kicking and counter kicking, better trapping, knees and elbows I think are equal, except that in CMA they train joint breaking, chin na, throwing, chokes etc.

Any style thats 50 yrs old or more can be painted as the best, most undefeatable style....so what?



CHECK THIS OUT.
look at the "low innefective stance"...then look at the picture below it. The Muay Thai guy is in a similar stance at the same height, only with better posture and the kung fu guy is in a crappy (I don't know what to call it...not even a good transition)

They both keep their hands down.