what art for bodytype

[apoweyn]

liokault,

who told you to pick an art with weight classes? wasn't me.

"I picked 2 "performance" arts as they were the most extream i could find."

then perhaps you should pick your examples based on applicability and not extremity.

"Also why should he go into an art and then have to try to pick up tactics to make that art work for him (i.e work around the arts short comings for his body type) when he can go into an art that he will not have to madify at all?

anyone in any art has to pick tactics that make the art work for him. that's not a shortcoming. it's the practice of a martial artist taking responsibility for his own progress.

if i learn BJJ from a shorter man, is it a shortcoming of BJJ if i use different tactics than he does?


stuart b.

[Merryprankster]

Liokault--you're making absolutely no sense.

Wushu is an MA of form ie, how pretty you can make something look. That's it. It's not about fighting. As such, it has no place in this discussion. That's a straw man you're setting up so you can knock it over. Unfortunately, the discussion is about an art for fighting, so even though the straw man is tipped over, you're still back at square one. My friend Ant will never look pretty doing forms, but he'll beat your ass on the inside.

Sumo is a sport without a weight class. Read my Tua and De La Hoya example until it makes sense.

If the guy doesn't want a sportive MA then he doesn't have to do one. That doesn't mean he can't use whatever art he comes across.

What you are trying to do with the "let him pick something he doesn't have to adjust," argument is ludicrous. You're trying to paint a broad brushstroke as if to say "TKD guys fight on the outside with kicks, so if your short you're screwed." That's absurd. What we're saying is that you choose an art, and you wind up developing a personal way of using it. IE, the shorter guy can win if he learns to close the gap properly and jam his opponent. You seem not to grasp the idea that a fight is a relationship between two fighters, and the one who wins is generally the one that is better at executing his gameplan against the other.

Let me try to hammer in another example:

I have a friend who is shorter than me, stronger than me, very fast and explosive, and less flexible. As such, he wrestles on the outside, looking for quick shots and duck unders and avoids the tie up.

I'm taller, slower of foot, with longer limbs (levers). I have developed better sensitivity than he has and am a better counterwrestler who likes to tie up.

Which one of us isn't "wrestling?" After all, there's some "way" wrestlers fight, right? Since our personal styles and builds are so different it sounds like ONE of us must have "adapted," the style in some way when we would have been better off doing something else.

[Liokault]

"I have a friend who is shorter than me, stronger than me, very fast and explosive, and less flexible. As such, he wrestles on the outside, looking for quick shots and duck unders and avoids the tie up.

I'm taller, slower of foot, with longer limbs (levers). I have developed better sensitivity than he has and am a better counterwrestler who likes to tie up.

Which one of us isn't "wrestling?" After all, there's some "way" wrestlers fight, right? Since our personal styles and builds are so different it sounds like ONE of us must have "adapted," the style in some way when we would have been better off doing something else."


But whice one of you "wins"?

Again i reiterate that im not saying that any martial art is off limits to this guy or that almost any art he chooses he can not be good at....im just saying that if he gets into an art that fits with his body type then he will have an imediate advantage.

[apoweyn]

and i'm disagreeing with what i feel to be a gross oversimplification. if killorbe wishes to act based on your opinion, then let him. but i personally think he's doing himself a disservice.


stuart b.

[Liokault]

Well i think he is making the best use of his tools and his time.

[apoweyn]

by being painted into a corner by his own body? nah. i still disagree.

[Merryprankster]

Which one wins? Which ever one of us executes our game plan better.

We're about even. He has more wrestling experience than I do if that helps.

Here's another example:

Lennox Lewis is tall and lanky and uses jab cross a lot while fighting on the outside to win.

Mike Tyson is short and stocky and uses a weave in style of slipping combined with a peakaboo guard to get in close and pound his opponent with uppercuts and hooks.

Both have been champions in their art.

Very different mechanics involved in each.
Very different styles.

Which one isn't boxing? I mean, there's a way that boxers fight right? And since these guys look COMPLETELY different from each other, right down to the foot work, one of them has to be "adapting," boxing instead of boxing, right? And yet, they were both very very good.

Here's another example:

I have a buddy who is an MT guy that's very fast. He kicks from the outside and uses a lot of distance and movemnt.

I have another buddy who isn't as fast. He's awfully good in the clinch though. He uses his skills to get in close and clinch, then he murders people with knees.

Which one isn't the Muay Thai fighter? I mean, there's a way that MT fighters fight right? And since these guys look COMPLETELY different from each other, right down to the footwork, one of them has to be "adapting," MT, instead of "doing what they're supposed to," right?

How about this one?

Royce Gracie is known for his guard work. He plays a very relaxed guard game and isn't known for pounding on his opponents.

Rickson Gracie, on the other hand, has a more smashing style, where he mounts his opponent and beats on them before he works for a submission attempt.

Which one isn't doing BJJ? I mean, there's a way that BJJer's fight, right? And since these guys fight COMPLETELY differently and have different bodytypes, one of them has to be "adapting," BJJ instead of "doing what they're supposed to" right?

[Lightning Vortex Seiryu go]

which style matter does it not...
the mind is the most powerful weapon
and greatest, its where it all begins,
the body is a physical tool from which
your mind manipulates.

[MS2006]

Ok so u say that body shape doesn't matter. Well here is a good example (with weight divisions). So u r saying that a 5'4 (abnormaly short for that division) , 128lb, 8th grader built like an over weight oompa loompa has as good of a chance of beating an apponent 5'8 (normal height for thaT DIVISION, 128 pounds, 8th grader biult like a tank as he does of beating the oompa loompa? From my experiences in wrestling if that is the case the oompa loompa is going down. If u are built like the oompa facin a kid like that (which is a normal wrestling build for that age and division) u pretty much have to have him on his back and smother him to get a pin which probablys the only way he could win it. And first he has to be down which u most likely will not be fast or strong enough to take him down and then when he does he will probably try to pin u and it is hard enough getting up alone with that build without an extra 128lbs on your chest. So basically if that is the scenario u r screwed if u r the oompa loompa type fellow.

[Stacey]

while its true that you can use any art...certain arts...like mantis concentrat on getting to the side and back using grabs, elbows, knees and throwing.

Go with 8 step preying mantis.

[Merryprankster]

MS2006--

I have a friend who is 5'4" and was a successful college wrestler at 134.

If you are talking about a pudgy, out of shape guy, then you are talking about a pudgy out of shape guy. It doesn't matter what weight and bodytype at that point--out of shape loses to in shape, 99% of the time.

I might also point out that 8th graders are at a very "in between state." Some of them are just barely shaving, some are 3 years in. Physiological development is very different at that age from individual to individual, whereas the relative variation among reasonably fit adults is far less so---so you picked a bad example.

[killorbe]

ok,, 5'6 195 pounds, dont know exact bodyfat percent probably 15 or so percent,, i train in my kenpo style 4 days a week i spar, use heavy bags, shadowbox. I also lift weights 2 times a week let me rephrase my question a bit more. im fighting in a sparring match a guy that is 6'3 almost a foot taller!Im a good kicker but im not a very high kicker to get my leg up to this guys head in a match, his legs of course fly over me,, doing axe kicks, crecent kicks and the such,,basically when im in his punching range he is in my kicking range, so im just trying to see how i can use my low level kicks to him. i know i can easily take out his knee caps,, but i find it hard to hit a big guy in the body with any kicks,, although, i also sparred with a guy who is about 5-9 and landed som good kicks to the face. I guess maybe it is just the guy im sparring with,, he covers his body well and i cant hit it with a kick,, I end up rushing in and trying to get him with hand techniques. I cant blast his legs he could get seriously injured, i just thought my exess weight might make it hard for me to do kicks, since i weight as much as him , so that is why i wanted to no if a should just stick with a low kicking style cause of my weight.sorry im rambling so much. i also heard that the fighter shamrock is a short guy,, and wiondered if he studied a striking art of martial arts,, if anyone knows? thanks for all the informative info!!!!!!!

[Merryprankster]

5'6" and 195 isn't unreasonably heavy, to my thinking. I have plenty of guys in my weight class that are that height or maybe only an inch taller and they do just fine.

You need to work on closing the gap. There are lots of ways to do this, and they vary from style to style, and venue to venue depending on the rules.

With your reach disadvantage, you're going to get hit because you have to fight inside. It's that simple. The trick is to make him pay each time he tries to hit you, because when you are inside, you can unload while he is jammed up.

So, basically, you're going to eat some shots on the way in--you can minimize the shots you eat by choosing appropriate tactics--for instance, you can leg check an incoming round kick and step in (placing you inside his kicking range) throwing lead hand shots while slipping and weaving (to avoid the head punches that will follow), while half-stepping closer with every slip and weave. If you can get him backing up straight, you'll probably win the exchange. Win enough exchanges, you win the round In a real fight, win the exchange and then run like hell

For the record, anybody who tells you you can fight inside without getting hit is full of crap.

But that's just one example. There are other ways to accomplish the same goal--but essentially, you're going to have to work on ways of closing the gap while minimizing the damage you take.

[Leimeng]

~I would suggest you explore Bagua Zhang to supplement your studies. I have no doubt that the ability you will gain in movement will aid you tremendously. Additionally, the mindset and strategy employed by Bagua is vicious to say the least. Having good footwork and body placement will assist any martial artist in a combat situation.

Peace,

Sin Loi

yi beng, kan xue

[Liokault]

With your reach disadvantage, you're going to get hit because you have to fight inside. It's that simple. The trick is to make him pay each time he tries to hit you, because when you are inside, you can unload while he is jammed up.

thats wrong. Im only 5'9 and in somthing like 15 full contact fights (based on me fighting inside) I have only taken 2 shots to the head that i can remember...and nither of them were hard.

Choose the right art for your self and train right and their is no reason to eat shots.