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Thread: The Kwan Dao weighing 100lbs? That is ridiculous!

  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Lebaufist View Post
    This is strictly your opinion. I just don't see it that way at all.
    im speaking from historical fact. if i dont know anything about a topic, i dont post.

    in kung fu many things turns out not to be what you expected.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lebaufist View Post
    . It would be a useless weapon if used that way against others on horseback with spears and lighter weapons.
    lances and sword cavalry charge directly into the flank of a spear square. guan dao rides alongside, not into, the spear square and "shave" off enemy soldiers. guan dao will mow down multiple people in one pass.

    guan dao is shorter than the lance, it can cut him. guan dao is longer than the sword, it can stab him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lebaufist View Post
    Or, on the ground to throw away your only long weapon is a mistake. A sword against a battalion of spears is a poor bet. No matter what the wu jia movies would like you to think.

    From what I've garnered, the succession of weapons was need. Longer to shorter.
    you have to understand that guan dao was used before firearms, in the age of heavy armor and heavy weapons. it means soldiers at that time didnt have to block or parry, they just keep swinging their weapons.
    Last edited by bawang; 12-03-2012 at 05:09 PM.

    25th generation inner door disciple of Chen Style Practical Wombat Method
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  2. #122
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    If you say so...

    However, the consensus might not agree with you. Also, as a person who has played the weapon for years, your analogy doesn't really jibe with what I know is possible with the weapon. So we'll agree to disagree, many will.

    Whats your experience playing the weapon, if any?

    And finally, and I do mean finally because to ague about this is futile and endless, "historical fact" as per whom exactly? Unless you were there, it would be nice for you to name a source. Paintings and statues don't move.
    Last edited by Lebaufist; 12-03-2012 at 05:16 PM.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Lebaufist View Post
    Whats your experience playing the weapon, if any?
    i have 10 pound stick for swordplay and 20 pound stick for spear play. i wear weight vest and practice basic blocks, stabs and chops 100 times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lebaufist View Post
    And finally, and I do mean finally because to ague about this is futile and endless, "historical fact" as per whom exactly? Unless you were there, it would be nice for you to name a source. Paintings and statues don't move.
    muyedobotongji, ming dynasty
    military accessories, cheng ziyou, ming dynasty
    Last edited by bawang; 12-03-2012 at 05:23 PM.

    25th generation inner door disciple of Chen Style Practical Wombat Method
    Officially certified by Ethiopian Orthodox patriarch Abune Mathias
    grandmaster instructor of Wombat Combat™®LLC Practical Wombat Method. international academy retreat

  4. #124
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    And I got a unicorn that poops gold covered diamonds and farts rainbows.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lebaufist View Post
    Eeeeeeeeee, no, the KD as a speedier weapon is held close to the hilt and uses the shaft as a counter balance with most of the weight trailing behind leaving the blade to maneuver faster. The Longer movements were longer range swings using its center point and full body movement instead of just muscling it. Which wouldn't be a good idea to walk in to. The KD really teaches how to manipulate heavy objects with its center in mind. Trying to force that puppy around is not the point.
    Irrelevant.
    A lighter weapon is faster and as such, better in actual combat.
    No matter how fast you can swing a heavy weapon, a lighter one would be applied faster and speed in edge weapons is THE factor.
    There is a reason I mentioned losing your hands.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    Irrelevant.
    A lighter weapon is faster and as such, better in actual combat.
    No matter how fast you can swing a heavy weapon, a lighter one would be applied faster and speed in edge weapons is THE factor.
    There is a reason I mentioned losing your hands.
    True. the heavier the weapon, the slower it is.

    Mauls = slow
    Warhammers= slow
    Battle Axes = slow
    Halberds= slow (Kwan Dao can be seen as a halberd or battle axe)

    single hand weapons are faster by far.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    True. the heavier the weapon, the slower it is.

    Mauls = slow
    Warhammers= slow
    Battle Axes = slow
    Halberds= slow (Kwan Dao can be seen as a halberd or battle axe)

    single hand weapons are faster by far.
    Point being that an overly heavy "weapon" would be a training tool far before it would be considered a weapon for combat.
    Regardless of how well and fast someone can use a 50lbs Kwan do, he would use it faster and better if it was 25 and he trained with a 50 and even faster if it was 15 instead of 25.
    There is a place for heavy weapons on the battlefield of course BUT even the heavy ones MUST be manageable in a battle and NOT leave their wielder at a disadvantage.

    A 5ft long sword that was 1" thick and 3" wide would way over 50lbs.
    Seen many of those on a real battlefield? Archeologically speaking of course.
    Nope and with good reason.
    Even a Scottish Claymore was "only" about 6-7 lbs and that was a FULL blade.
    A Guag Dao, had more handle than blade.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  8. #128
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    Combat wise, a soldier would want the lightest and strongest (durable) weapon he could get his hands on.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  9. #129
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    "Overly" is relative to the user. I wouldn't use an 80 pounder at all. I'm only 5'8" 195. Kwan Kune was more like "the big show" He could use an 80 pound weapon quite easily with the same skills.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lebaufist View Post
    "Overly" is relative to the user. I wouldn't use an 80 pounder at all. I'm only 5'8" 195. Kwan Kune was more like "the big show" He could use an 80 pound weapon quite easily with the same skills.
    Imagine what he could do with a 20lbs.
    And then you can see my point.
    By the way, all cultures have their "Kwan Kune" myths.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  11. #131
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    well, we weren't there. Speculation is at best derived from our personal experiences.

    He might have found a 20 pounder to be laughably lite for all we really know.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lebaufist View Post
    well, we weren't there. Speculation is at best derived from our personal experiences.

    He might have found a 20 pounder to be laughably lite for all we really know.
    Right.
    Ok then.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  13. #133
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    To add to your point, and not to your frustration, lighter versions were the norm for the average soldier.

    But we are talking about Kwan Kune. It may be a fish story, but he wasn't a guppy.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lebaufist View Post
    This is strictly your opinion. I just don't see it that way at all.
    I agree with Bawang's deductions about the method of application of Kuandao.
    I can't offer a solid historical perspective though as I wasn't there when it was used.

    The method of shaving the opposing army on the side was also used with chariots as has been described in old Chinese military books. A sample of the writings.

    Thirty-six great Fu-Xu Attack Chariots. Carrying Praying Mantis Martial warriors, they can attack both horizontal and vertical formations and can defeat the enemy.

    Two Thousand Years of Mantis Warriors

    A good place to look is Ralph D. Sawyer and his book The Seven Military Classics of Ancient China.

  15. #135
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    Being there has nothing to do with validation of history. Confirmed and valid sources are just that.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

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