Southern Fist the best?

[doug maverick]

who the hell told you southern style was not used on in the millitary wong fei hung trained the army, so did the founder of jow gar, so did many wing chun masters, where do you get your info you sound like a person who talks but can't fight, southern style is the best for short range fighting, i live in new york city and get into alot of scraps where i live at, and it's always more then one they always have some kind of weapon (one guy even fought me with a fan!) my friend he studies under monk shi yan ming, and yes the kung fu is real no wushu or anything like that and he's been with him for 4 years and he's won all san shou tournaments and all that good stuff but when we were in the bronx visiting some friend like we do every day, he decided he wanted to cash his check it was 10:00pm and the only place that was open was a check cashing place in the housing projects in soudview, well when we crossed the bridge i noticed some kids were following us, but at first i thought i was being parraniod and kept walking. After we got out of the check place i seen them again but when saw them the first time there was 8 guys this time there was for i told my friend to get ready we might have to fight(note:if anyone from the bronx reads this you know that there is only three ways to get across the soundview bridge and we were on the elder av bridge whitch means that was our only way over) he started sweating and walking quikly i told him there was no point in trying to run there might be four other guys waiting at the bridge so dead the issue of running then i started to look around for a weapon but it was friday and all the trash was off the street(or so i thought)as we got to the bridge i was surprrised to see know one on the bridge then all of a sudden four guys come running across the bridge the other four guys were right in back of us four guys quikly sorrounded me and four him, won guys was screaming "you trying to play me you tryign to play me" (i don't what he was talking about) i told him to be easy. then he said "turn around" and i of course said know (oh and this was the guy wit the fan) i look to my left and my friend the fighter the northern style guy was shaking like a leaf thats when WAM!!!!!!! i was cracked on my shoulder by the fan then he tryed to crack me again but my forearm blocked it the guy (who was short about 5'6 5'7 and built like a house ) looked surprised that i took the hit on my forearm and had bo injury ( da samm sing and da lok sing ETC. also kiu sao training builds your forearms to resist pain) then using a whipping motion i learned from tai chi i took the fan and using it like a staff cracked the guy and one of his people walked up to the other guys (who buy now were beating the crap out of my friend) cracked one of them graped my friend and we started to walk fast across the bridge (my friend said his leg hurt or else we would have ran like the wind) then the guys started throwing bottles and we had now choice but to run as fast as we can witch wasent really fats like i said my friend hurt his leg.(god must have been with us that night cause not one bottle touched us but they almost did...........thank you god.......)
as we got across the brigde a friend of my hurt friend (who was a drug dealer and a rael friend) ran after the guys with a gun when he saw them after use the guys turned into track stars when they seen the gun and ran into the pj's. after my friend had to go to the hospital his hurt leg turned into a twisted ankle and fractured shin, also a torn muscle, like i said he trained every day for 2 hour for four years and had all of these bull crap injuries and the guys couldnt have beat him hard enouth it was only a few secounds. i mean he's a shaolin guy and i'm positive they some kind of conditioning. after his leg healed and he got the okay to train he left shi yan ming's school and is now looking for a good southern schools, even i now train in the internal arts (xing yi and bagua) for the last year and a have it was my southern style traing that got me out of there. so ego do some research cause even thou all style are equal northern style has no place in the city may be where your from but not here does hi kicks will get you hurt or even worse. study be for you say anything.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

I don't know what era wong fei hung was from, but in the olden days the chinese army was based on having superior numbers. Southern stylist might have made good cannon fodder with the feriocity in the attacks. Sure heaps of them might have got killed but it would have probably slowed the enemy down for the xing'I types to take tem out with ease. Just look at CLF, the large swinging arm movements are very very basic. No doubt the hits could be devastating if it makes contact, but you're also opening yourself up to being smacked around. It's not based on strategy as such.

I do not doubt your ability as a fighter and highly skillful with a fan. I've seen kung fu movies where the preferred weapon of some heros is a fan. maybe what I see on the screens is true afterall. Okies enough of that. So you smacked 1 guy while your Northern friend took the heat. That's when you got the chance to smack the other guy - and both of you ran. Ok kung fu masters 2 NY punks 0. From what i understand it was all a matter of team work.

But what really turned the tide was when your other friend brought out a guy. That got the rest of the 6 guys running. Ok so the score is now Kung fu masters 2, punks 0, guy with gun 6.

I had incidents. Punk have hassled me and I've given them my wallets. I've been buying quite a few wallets. It's cheaper than paying for KF classes though.

Maximus Materialize!

[doug maverick]

okay you made a point but you see i study xing yi
now as a wrote in my past reply. but you see i studied hung gar,black tiger and dragon style,also wing chun, these in my opinion the best southern martial arts has to offer screw mantis it may have some effectiveness, but mantis guys really are to flashy, still ounce i started studing the internal ma's i really forgot about all the external ma's so it really doesn't matter,
when i first read your post i doudt you were an ass now i kind think your cool, but one question if you thought mantis was so bad why the hell did you waist so much time on it. oh and wong fei hung was the guy who help liberate china and trained the army and he was a famous hung gar master. they made over 150 movies about him.

[Kung Lek]

Hi-

Abandit- I am not a moderator on the southern chinese kung fu forum, and even so, I am a moderator and cannot ban anyone.

I'd like to make a comment about Wong Fei Hung from peacemakers post.

Wong Fei Hung was indeed probably the most well known and famous Hung Gar master who lived. Especially to the chinese who have indeed told and retold his story over the years since his passing (and even legends during his lifetime).

He did not so much "liberate" china as he did make the people aware of their own will. And through his Kung Fu he cemented the idea of personal strength in all who encountered him and moreso from those who were his students and peers.

In particular his student Lam Tsai Wing (Lam Saiwing) was of geat skill by all accounts and contributed quite a lot to the system which had been built upon previously by Wong Fei Hung.
These two, master(master Wong) and student(master Lam) made some of the greatest innovations within the practice of Hung Gar Kung Fu.

peace

Kung Lek

[bean curd]

ego, you have no clue on what you are talking about.

your comments on choi li fut alone show your complete ignorance on these matters, and your comments on xing yi confirm this.

regarding fighting in china, and picking any dynasty, you show no understanding.

pure and simply put, i am saying your are PURE AND SIMPLE!!!!!

[mysteri]

To anyone ignorant enough to believe that southern style gung fu is not effective or even as, if not more, effective than northern style kung fu doesn't deserve to be called a kung fu practicioner. Of course as with anything, there are going to be bad apples in the bin.( This holds to be self-evident in many governments e.g.) So of course there are going to be styles of martial arts that are watered down from its original form. If a northern style master teaches a student martial arts for years and that student decides to open a school(regardless of his masters feelings) and that instructor teaches poorly, his students will learn poor techniques. Should that style or even the first master's ability be based on that one bad instructor? In short, one who has learned poorly has no right to criticize an entire system based on the teachings of one instructor.

[Juggler]

Ego is a fraud.

He has told more lies on this board than can be calculated by a supercomputer.

He is NOT a Southern Mantis instructor!

If you don't reply to him, he will get bored, and make himself into a bigger moron than he is now (if that is indeed possible).

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Peacemaker,

To set the records of history straight, Wong Fei Hung was actually a small time rebel who did enough to make a name for himself amongst the peasant but not enough to get his head chopped off by the local Megistrate (who was skilled in Northern Kung Fu). Wong wasn't a dumb @ss peasant and was actually quite a smart guy and learned the lessons from those Fuikken monks who thought their kung fu was so great and had their temple burned down by the Northern Masters. In fact, the Megistrate and Wong became good friends. With the little trouble that Wong caused, the Megistrate was able to call on the central government for more resources to "hunt down" the rebel. The little good that Wong do made him a local hero and a superstar to the local chics.

Sure some soldiers from the megistrate got killed and so did a few of Wong's merry men. But the two leaders were astute politicians and even staged afew combats of their own.

Anyway the friendship ended when the megistrate discovered that Wong was sleeping with his wife. And indeirectly Wong did kill the Megistrate by causing him to have a heart attack as a result of his actions. Wong later discovered that the Megistrate was sexually impotent and in this way he liberated China. (The name of the Megistrate's wife was China).

That was Wong's greatest conquest

Maximus Materialize!

[MaFuYee]

peacemaker,
you've got some viscious run on sentances!

"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music."
- Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989

[Kung Lek]

Hi-

Actually, legend has it that the monks of the southern temple destroyed the temple themselves as a kind of "scorched earth policy".

It is still to this day a debateable issue as to whether or not an actual temple in Fukien existed.

There is said to be ruins and of course there is the new southern temple built by the prc to manage the interest of martial arts of shaolin and how the northern temple is full to the limit.

I think that the White Horse temple in Putian would be able to furnish fairly sound information on the reality of the southern Shaolin temple because it was there at the alleged time of the southern temples existance and it is still there today.

The buddhist martial arts of the south were derived from the buddhist martial arts of the north.
There are differences in techniques and styles but they share the same root. Shaolin Temple at Song Shan in Henan is the starting point for the codification and systemization of buddhist martial arts in and out of China.

It is also worthy to note that martial arts as "systems" were practiced in China before the existance of the Shaolin Temple, but that the Shaolin Temple was the greatest in maintaining and preserving many arts both buddhist and indigenous.

It was "THE" place to learn Kung Fu in it's heyday and to many people it still is, even though _most_ of the offerings are contemporary wu shu of the prc.

peace

Kung Lek

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

I'm not a fraud and I'm not a troll.

Maximus Materialize!

[mysteri]

Everyone in this forum knows that the only true way to prove a point about combat is through combat. This is not personal challenge, because i wouldn't want to embarass you that bad. I simply want you to prove verbally through your "knowledge" of southern kung fu what techniques you think are crap. most of the northern style practioners that i've sparred fight similar to taekwondo practicioners. they throw a lot of fast, simultaneous, and sometimes even strong kicks. though these kicks generally lacked root and stability and i constantly have to restrain myself from making the simplest twist of my rooted self and iron bridge hands in order not to break their legs. a constant struggle for me. also, i must restrain myself when i simply use my swift, rooted stepping skills to avoid these long ranges kicks and punches because once i get to the origins of these attacks(ie. the hips and shoulders) and i am on the inside, i have to restrain myself from breaking their ribs because their not very skilled in close range combat. please don't think that i'm insulting northern style kung fu practioners because 1/3 of my style is northern shaolin, but these are simply my experiences while studying my southern style of jow ga. now that i've given you a testament of my truth, i ask you to respond in some way that proves that northern style kung fu is so superior to southern style kung fu. we are all waiting, the talk is becoming stale.

"dum spiro, spero.."(while i breath, i hope)

[South Paw]

Kung Lek wrote:
"It is still to this day a debateable issue as to whether or not an actual temple in Fukien existed.

There is said to be ruins and of course there is the new southern temple built by the prc to manage the interest of martial arts of shaolin and how the northern temple is full to the limit.

I think that the White Horse temple in Putian would be able to furnish fairly sound information on the reality of the southern Shaolin temple because it was there at the alleged time of the southern temples existance and it is still there today."

Interesting reading would be the following book:
Development and decline of Fukien Province in the 17th and 18th Centuries
(edited by) E.B. Vermeer
Sinica Leidensia...vol. XXII
Publisher: E.J. Brill - Leiden/New York/Cologne - 1990
ISBN 9004091718

One of the articles in this book is 'The decadence of Buddhist temples in Fu-chien in late Ming and early Ching'by Tien Ju-K'ang.

In P'u-t'ien (Putian) county there were 14 Buddhist temples (1503) against 3 Taoist temples. There was a total of 191 Buddhist temples and 311 Taoist temples in Fukien in the period 1503 - ca. 1619.
After 1620, due to repression under the ardent Taoist emperor Shih-tsung Buddhist temples were in a pitiable state all over the country.
The compulsory evacuation of the residents on the south east coast in the years 1661 to 1668 led to the total ruin of a great number of remaining temples in the coastal regions.
The resistance against the Ching and the authorities lasted longer in Fukien.

Although the book s not mentioning a Shaolin Temple, it describes vividly the people of Fukien, live in the temples, the decline of those temples and the rebellion against the Ching.
Seems that there is much more material out there then we can imagine.

Probably the southern Shaolin temple was not even mentioned by this name. The monks that went from the Henan Shaolin temple more likely sought refuge in another Chan Buddhist temple in Fukien where they were amongst brothers. A temple with a different name, but where they could practice there Shaolin Martial Arts.

A southern Shaolin temple is much referred to by martial arts in the provinces of Guangdong and Fujian (Fukien), which we can also use as some sort of proof of the existence of such a temple in Fukien. Martial arts that have a history in common but are so different in their practises.

Southern martial arts are much more refined then their northern (Shaolin) counterparts. Just think of the more intricate footwork that is used in southern martial arts.
In northern martial arts, and I'm talking about traditional Shaolin derivatives, they mostly perform there forms in straight lines. When I visited the Shaolin temple in 1983 with a friend, we were invited by the local Shaolin school in Deng Feng. Not a commercial modern Shaolin Wushu school but a traditional Shaolin school. Pure straight forward Shaolin as it used to be, and performance in straight lines. Well we showed them the real southern Shaolin: Hung Gar. The whole school and a lot of spectators watching this north-south exchange applauded our forms, that included the famous 'tiger crane double form'.
I still have this exchange on super 8 film and a lot of pictures. Maybe I should put this on the web.

South Paw

[South Paw]

There is also a post on the Shaolin Forum about the 5 animals, in which is mentioned the style Wu Xing Ba Fa Quan (5 Animals 8 Methods, which is a part of Da Jing Gang Quan ( A system of northern Shaolin ).

They also have use of the 5 animals as in Hung Gar.
This style has more in common with Hung Gar as it also uses sounds and emotions, for example in their form 'Xi Nu Ai Le Quan', the '4 emotion Fist'.

South Paw

[dunbarj01]

Ego,

Yes, you are.