Southern Fist the best?

[TAO YIN]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!LOLLOLLOLLOL!!!

Eggo you really do know S***. Yes I can say that all of those hand configurations are basic because all you are doing is JUST THAT, configurating your hand! Now, to use any of those techniques you must condition them and train them properly. Anyway, Yes I can say that a tiger claw is just as basic as any punch. BASICALLY, with a punch you are throwing your fist at a moving opponent. BASICALLY, with a tiger claw you are throwing your hand out to grab the moving opponent. Now since you are slow I must put an emphasis on the word BASICALLY because I am not talking about tiger claw combos or anything of the sort.

By the way, in my earlier post I wasn't changing strategies. It was 2 different strategies that both work separately. Now pay attention! I realize you have a hard time understanding what others say but I am going to make this real simple for you to understand.

1st attack-You kick, punch, sweep, and whatever else at me. Realizing that most of those hits are going to make contact, I block the best I possibly can and then thrust my left fingers into your eye, throat, temple, etc. At the same time I land at least one phoenix eye somewhere right about your sternum.

Why does 1st attack work-Because you have set yourself up by throwing too many non-targeted attacks. YOU ARE NOT ATTACKING FOR MY CENTERLINE! Therefore, I am using basic aggressive footwork, charging and attacking you the whole time you are attacking. Sooner or later I will get inside your centerline! It doesn't matter how many attacks you throw either. If we are truly fighting, it doesn't matter if you make contact 10 times because I know that all I have to do is get inside your centerline ONCE and then I can tear up your eyes, OR temple, OR throat, OR nose, OR ears, OR collar bone, Or sternum, etc. A good Northern Fighter knows to not let a Southern Fighter inside the centerline. THE REASON, IF IM INSIDE YOUR CENTERLINE IT MAKES IT EASIER FOR ME TO CONNECT MY ATTACKS BECAUSE I HAVE BROUGHT YOU CLOSER TO ME, THE TARGET IS CLOSER AND MORE ACCESSIBLE!!!!!! Duh Eggo.

From all of your elaborate but idiotic talk all you are really saying is that you WOULD throw aimless punches, kicks, sweeps, attacks, and whatever else in order to land hits SOMEWHERE on the opponent. This is going to do 2 things for you.

1. You are going to be **** tired about 30 seconds into the fight.

2. Most of your attacks are going to be to the outside of the opponent centerline. The attacks that you landed to my head or knees only makes me more angry and aggressive. A lot of good this is going to do you! hahaha

Wait I'm not done.

2nd attack-You throw whatever attacks you possibly can. I rush your CENTERLINE and grab your neck...ok I missed with my left hand so ill use my right. Then I drop to the ground making sure to push forward with whatever grip I have on your neck so as to make sure the back of your head smashes the pavement.

Why does 2nd attack work-Because you do not have enough speed or power to stop me from charging you and grabbing your neck. You threw all of those punches and kicks but they didn't connect with anything but the OUTSIDE of my CENTERLINE.

Eggo, you are only partially right. It is hard to grab an arm or leg and break it because they can move in an array of directions. BUT IT ISN'T HARD TO GRAB THE BOTTOM OF SOMEONES NECK!!! If Im inside your centerline YOU CAN'T MOVE YOUR BODY FAST ENOUGH FOR ME TO NOT GRAB YOUR NECK, OR PIERCE YOUR STERNUM, OR CRACK YOUR TEMPLE, OR RIP YOUR EYES, ETC. The head and torso are always primary targets. They are the targets that are going to be the closest that you are ever going to get to STATIONARY.

And No I don't agree with you. Southern Kung Fu applications are in no way limited. Here is an example. You seem to be interested in Tiger Claw. Well, I can TIGER CLAW, your ankle, groin, nuts, arm pits, neck, wrist, collar bone, eyes, and on and on. And that is just one technique, TIGER CLAW.

It seems to me you would use your Southern Mantis hands with your Northern Mantis legs??????? You are truly an idiot if you think a Southern attack won't work.

I have no idea why I bothered.


TAO YIN :p

[This message was edited by TAO YIN on 05-22-01 at 08:58 PM.]

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

The techniques you have described rely on the assumption that your opponent's center line remains static in space. That is true for southern systems because of their crappy foot work.

But if you're dealing with something like Ba Gua, the practitioner can shift their center line 180 degrees very rapidly. You;'ll have a hard time chasing them down. If you'rte dealing aganist northern mantis, you'll find the hits coming from all directions. Basically, just as it is not easy to claw someone's throat, neck or eye, you'll be hard pressed chasing down their centerline.

As for striking at the temple or poking an eye, you'll run the risk of breaking your finger on something hard if you miss the target. I didn't expect something so silly from a smart person like you.

Maximus Materialize!

[TAO YIN]

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Nevermind Eggo!

It is obvious that you either didn't read my post or comprehend it one.

Leggo my Eggo said "the techniques you have described rely on the assumption that your opponent's centerline remains static in space."

Even though I explained this in my post, I will try to explain it to you again. I don't assume that the opponents centerline is static. I WAS SAYING THAT THE OPPONENTS CENTERLINE IS THE CLOSEST THING I'LL GET TO STATIC!!! Do you really not understand this. The centerline is going to be more static than the legs, the legs are usually going to be more static than the hands, BUT OF COURSE THEY WILL ALL BE MOVING. I guess maybe you have a problem understanding how something could be more or less static than something else. What I mean is the centerline isn't going to move around AS MUCH as the opponent's attacks are. Its somewhat like football. If I want to tackle you then my target is your sternum. That is where my eyes are, right at you sternum. If you go to twist your waist I'm just going to slam into the top of your ribs with the helmet. The only valid point you made in your post was about Bagua. And yes I know how Northern Praying Mantis Practitioners fight, attacks from all directions, deceptive footwork, redirecting, etc, etc, blah, blah. Are you stupid enough to believe that Southern Kung Fu doesn't do this.

Then you said "That is true for southern systems and their crappy footwork."

OK I am used to hearing junk like this and it's funny. It is always something like Northern stances and kicks are the best and Southern handwork is the best, or something along those lines. Your statment is total bull****, Southern footwork is crappy, HAHAHAHA!! I can't believe that you really believe this. But I am glad that you believe this. I want you to always think that Fu Bo footwork is not effective. HAHAHA. Let me guess, Dew Tai Ma is also ineffective. HAHAHAHAHA. WAIT WAIT, Biggest joke of all, BUD DIN BATT BAT HAS NO APPLICATION WHATSOEVER TO A FIGHT!!!!! HAHAHAHAHA!! :D

I'll tell you what Eggo, you use only climbing hill horse stance and I will only use Bud Din Batt Bat Ma!! Or better yet, lets set it up like this: You use a ninety-degree northern cat stance, and I'll use a Soutern Cat Stance, now from here lets see which one of us can kick (with power) the other first!

Sorry Eggo I won't be chasing them down, I'll already be right where I need to be. And like I said in my earlier post YOU HAVE TO TRAIN THOSE TECHNIQUES PROPERLY. So you don't break your fingers you chump! :p

I still don't understand, why don't you use Southern Mantis Hands with Northern Mantis legs Eggo? You are a Sifu of both right? HAHAHAHA!

Oh by the way, go to the main kung fu forum and post a topic like ATTENTION RALEK or something like that. He is a bjj fan who thinks all kung fu sucks. You should show him just how superior your Northern Mantis is! HAHAHAHA!! Is that 5 star you study? Or is it 7 star now? LOL!

TAO YIN :D

"With great power, be still"

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Center line is the most static, depends on what you mean by static. It is possible that the opponent's center line is moving in a different plane to the attacks. Obviously a competent practitioner would be shifting the "soft targets" away from you and and throwing the attacks in your direction.

Sure Southern styles do have some degree of foot work but it's not as effecient as the North. I'm not failiar with the terms you're using in tiger claw. please describe them.

Your statement of using Southern Mantis hands and Northern Mantis legs shows a lack of understanding of either system. The movements are conceptually different and incompetable. Of course Northern Mantis being the superior of the two.

If you're thinking that conditioning will make your strategy work significantly better - I think you're barking up the wrong tree. You cannot avoid the fact that you're trying to strike a very small target that's moving around alot. Put it another way, the most vulnerable targets are also the most well protected. Naturally reaction would cause even an untrained person to flinch away if something gets close to the eyes.

Say in the Iraq war, before the US could get to air fields, it had to neutralise the AAA. Rushing in for the "choice" target would be suicide.

That's why in Northern systems, the targets are more generalized, either lower, middle, upper torso and leg area. it is accepted that significant amount of work may be needed to get to the target areas. That's why the emphasis on sensitivity rather then breaking power.

To give an example, it is alot harder to break someone's leg than it is to disrupt their balance. All it takes to hit your target may be a momentary advantage. Why go to all the trouble (and risk) to go for the break!

The key to success is the collection and analysis of information. You don't need the largest guns to win a war - just enough fire power and know what the enemy is doing.

One more thing - no need to get personal, otherwise other forum users may mistake you for a troll.

Maximus Materialize!

[Internal Flow]

There is no best and worst style. The only thing that counts when two martial arts practicioners fight , is the ability and technique :D

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Internal Flow

I agree with you that when 2 practitioners fight the outcome depends on ability and technique (and amonst many other external factors that may or may not be controllable).

However, that said, it is NOT a proof that there isn't a best or worst style.

Firstly, it is necessary to define what you mean by best and worst - hopefully it may mean keeping the conditions (for the fight to take place) constant.

Then you may want to test the styles statisitcally by having a lage number of practitioners of style A challenging a large number of practitioners of style B.

Then measure the probability of success of A and B to determine if the success of one style over the other is statistically significant. Now repeat this execise for all styles.

I don't beleive that this execise has been done recently. But the closet thing to this experiment probably occurred about 300+ years ago when kung fu was used extensively in the battle field context.

As it turned out, it was Northen styles like Hsing I, mantis etc that were used in highly critical situations like personal body guards for high ranking officials etc.

This may be the closest proof we have to what is / are the best styles. Of course, it is necessary to train correctly to attain the full potential within these systems.

Hope this helps.

Maximus Materialize!

[Laine Nakachi]

Doug Maverick ,

I read your topic post,well I'm glad that you and your friend,had survived the attack.Could'v been a lot worse.Did your friend leave Sifu Shi yan ming's school because of what happened ?

You know what had happened during the attack.So now what you must do is, prepare yourself environmentally , and using your kung fu skills and train for environmental purposes.

It's good that you're learning Xing I , when you learn the internal arts.You probably going be learning chi kung too.The chi kung exercises helps you to develop awareness.So continue on learning different arts and you'll do great.

Take Care
Sil Lum Kuen

[unclaimed effort]

Sorry, but yum cha is more of a southern thing. I'm not lying unlike you do. :)

If two tigers fight, the result will be one injured tiger.

Stillness in stillness is not real stillness. Stillness in motion is real stillness.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Depends on what dishes you're refering to in Yum Cha. There is a big variety these days and I guess there is a mixture of Northern and Southern.

Unlike food, however, Northern and southern kung fu is incompetable to the point that if you'vbe learned Northern systems, there is no value in learning Southern Kung Fu which was essentially simple self defence for peasants.

So is this the point where I accept your appology?

Maximus Materialize!

[unclaimed effort]

simple is better. unless your teacher told you to do something complicated for no reason, you would know that. :)

If two tigers fight, the result will be one injured tiger.

Stillness in stillness is not real stillness. Stillness in motion is real stillness.

[Fish of Fury]

Ego shows that artificial intelligence is yet to be perfected.
you cant determine which style is best by sitting on your bum theorising ego...you need to actually train.if you don't you'll never understand.

of course, if all you want to do is stir up ****e whilst harbouring the belief that nobody has noticed that you're just being a clown, and the belief that you're actually very clever and witty for pulling off this amazing charade...then your strategy may just work.

whatever gets you off, ego. :rolleyes:

__________________________________________________ _________________________ "I never drive faster than i can see...other than that...it's all in the reflexes" Jack Burton

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Fish of Fury,

"Ego shows that artificial intelligence is yet to be perfected."

What is perfect intelligence oh fish of fury?

"you cant determine which style is best by sitting on your bum theorising ego...you need to actually train.if you don't you'll never understand."

I have a background in Kung Fu and i am now doing extensive research on the history and development of martial arts in China. Following on from your comment, what exactly do you train to determine the best styles? And what criteria do you set for choosing the best style?

Maximus Materialize!

[Fish of Fury]

oh, ego.are you still here? how unfortunate.

it's all shades of grey in my opinion.
there is no perfect intelligence and no perfect style (but that doesn't mean you shouldn't aspire to having at least a little of each, ego)

if you're researching the history and development of MA's you may well become a great historian, you will not however become a great martial artist unless you train.you can't look at a movement you've never done and speak with any authority about it.your theoretical posts about kungfu styles clearly show you haven't even scratched the surface.

you CAN however make sweeping generalizations, and inflammatory and insulting posts and see who bites.what i'm unclear on is just what pleasure you derive from this.

__________________________________________________ _________________________ "I never drive faster than i can see...other than that...it's all in the reflexes" Jack Burton

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Hey Fish,

My statement was in response to yours which suggested that there is perfect intelligence. And now you've decided to do a major back paddle by saying that there is no perfect intelligence.

So would your stance that there is no perfect style change in your next post? I just wonder.

It is unfortunate if some people on this forum believe my posts to be inflametary and other adjatives that you've used. i'm not here to please others but nevertheless, I'm well loved by many on this forum.

Maximus Materialize!

[Fish of Fury]

come on, you can do better than that!

good to see however that as always you're focusing on the trivial in the hope that it will cover your ignorance

perhaps i should have said that you demonstrate that they have yet to DEVELOP artificial intelligence ?
would that make any sense to you (he asks in vain)

if not please feel free to bore me to death with a lecture on the correct way to conjugate a verb, and it wouldn't be complete without you reminding me that you do that roboty thing (what was it again?) oh, and something about mathematics and quantum physics would top it off nicely (but please ensure it has no actual point or relevance to kungfu, or the current conversation.)


thanks in advance

__________________________________________________ _________________________ "I never drive faster than i can see...other than that...it's all in the reflexes" Jack Burton