Wushu weapons - why so flexible?

[lotusleaf]

Why are some wushu weapons so flexible? eg: broadsword, staff, and the spear

[CLFNole]

Because their forms are more for show and less for actual fighting. Hence weapons that make a lot of noice are impressive to people who don't have a clue.

Peace.

[MaFuYee]

lotus leaf,

the weapons are extremely flexible because they are made out of flimsy spring steel. - and, in anticipation of your next question, 'why are they made out of flimsy spring steel?' - it is because if they would probably end up maiming themselves if they were to try using real weapons.

* a little known fact:, the word "wushu" (in the modern sense) is actually derrived from the sound that is made when a practitioner swings one of those spaghetti swords around. - WUSHU!

[mestre]

Actually the real reason why some whushu weapons are flexible is that they represent the 'soft' aspects of weapons,wheras the staff and staright sword are the 'hard' weapons. Think of it as aikido and karate 1 is a soft ma 1 hard ma if whushu they have aspects of both hard and soft. The benifits of soft weapons is in their flexability they can bend therefor there is sum give when they are struck and so the energy is spread and not concentrated like the analagy of the reed in the wind where it bouces back whereas a stonger tree might break.

[Liokault]

Mestre




"Actually the real reason why some whushu weapons are flexible is that they represent the 'soft' aspects of weapons,wheras the staff and staright sword are the 'hard' weapons. Think of it as aikido and karate 1 is a soft ma 1 hard ma if whushu they have aspects of both hard and soft. The benifits of soft weapons is in their flexability they can bend therefor there is sum give when they are struck and so the energy is spread and not concentrated like the analagy of the reed in the wind where it bouces back whereas a stonger tree might break."


This is not correct Mestre...the only weapons that should be "very" flexible are whips and chains. All weapons historicaly need a certain amount of flexability in then to stop them shattering when hit.


Now "martial arts" weapons are basicaly cheap and mass produced and are only a representation of the traditional weapons. They are flexable due to several factors.

1/ Very thin weapons will be much lighter and can therefore be swung much faster.....so they look better. Being thin makes them flexable.

2/ People think that thrusting a sword or whatever out in front of them and seeing the end shake shows their focus and superb controle of the weapon. Being flexable makes the end of the weapon vibrate much more easly...making the user feel good about their ability.

3/ I think that the main reason is that people just dont care any more. few people know what the weapon should really feel like or look like. Few people will ever need to rely on a weapon they are training with and as such any cheap replica will do.


Try to buy an authentiqe old weapon....its almost impossiable to do.

[David Jamieson]

wushu weapons are light so they can be weilded with speed.

the lighter the weapon the faster it can be handled. that's about the only reason they are so light. The lightness of the steel they use is responsible for the flimsy attributes.

Properly weighted weapons for Kung Fu practice and demonstration really aren't all that hard to get. You can have your choice of proper weight or wu shu weight on most of the weapons you can purchase through this site.

True weapons are the hardest to come by and are the most expensive.

peace

[GLW]

First off, the original idea of Modern Wushu was to standardize so competition judging would work. Then came the Cultural Revolution and it all stopped. then when that was over, there was an emphasis on competition but many of the old teachers had either died or were afraid to teach the real thing. so...you got flash but much of the substance was hidden or not there at all.

Then things began to loosen up and you got some quarters beginning to do traditional methods again...some still do but by this time you have the old guard retiring or dying and the new folks thinking they know it all... So you end up with the routines like the brand new compulsories...

The competition focus then went into the weapons used. The cheap tinfoli are cheaper and easier to use. they sound flashy and the judges began to reward that by giving higher scores for those who used them... Pretty soon, everyone is using them. The ones that really look funny are the spear and staff. They have a spear that is about 1 foot too short and both spear and staff are toothpicks.

But, in China this is changing. They have started to require a certai wieght and height in the weapons. The competition straightsword and broadsword are actually pretty nice for traditional work. I have one of the competition straightswords and it is NOT a tinfoil piece of junk. It is well balanced and pretty close in weight to my Lungchuan straightsword. Same thing for the broadsword.

The competitions in China now require the heavier weapons - they are raising the bar for competitors. In other countries, they are still using the tinfoil because the IWuF has not made the heavier weapons mandatory - but that is coming.

The folks who go out and do the demos with tinfoil do it because most of the audience wouldn't know the difference and it is plain showmanship.

Interestingly enough, a number of the folks who use the tinfoil to demo only practice with the heavier weapon.

The techniques are SUPPOSED to be such that if you do something that would cut you with the weapon, there is a major deduction. However, due to politics, lack of attention to detail, and poorly trained or caring judges, this often does NOT happen.

[Brad]

I have one of the new straightswords and it is sooooo nice! lol, I'm never going back to tinfoil Hey GLW, where do you get your weapons at? I got my sword from a booth at a tournement, but am not sure where the best place online would be. Where do the rest of you get your traditional weapons?

The folks who go out and do the demos with tinfoil do it because most of the audience wouldn't know the difference and it is plain showmanship.

I've never understood this. I've allways felt wushu demonstrations looked much better with less flexable weapons. Who wants to see a sword floping around? It's not that impresive. Most non wushu people I've met so far tend to feel this way too.

[GLW]

I tend to go to www.fistsports.com - well...not exactly, I know Nelson Chin who owns Beijing Imports and have known him for over 20 years...and having him within a 20 minute drive makes it handy. However, if there is something I can't get there, I go to other folks....

[MaFuYee]

* lung chuan swords suck. - even the heavier "combat steel" swords. - the balance is terrible. - they are basically just heavier peices of junk.

i wasted my money on a paul chen gim as well... oh well, another 80 bucks down the drain.

the only nice straight swords i've ever seen, were at the 'angel sword' booth, at a renesance fair in tuxedo ny. an old antique (only $4,000) and their custom made "gims" - not exactly a traditional design, but based on traditional design. - the owner of angel sword (daniel watson) has 30+ years(?) doing tai chi, and is a lineage holder in tung/dong style tai chi.
- they'll only set you back $1,500

[Brad]

- they'll only set you back $1,500

hmm... I think I'll stick with $80 pieces of junk, lol. That's nearlly 3 months pay for me

[Julien]

hmmmm, $1500 is a little steep for a good weapon

go to http://www.armor.com some of the best weapons your can get without buying from a custom smith... all of them are euro though (the falchion almost resembled a dao though)

http://www.vikingmetalworks.com has an awesome smith that does the best weapons i seen ever. he has some pieces that your can just pick - i've been eyeing the scimitar for a bit - or he can make you a custom sword.

he charges about $30 for an inch of steel but man, the best you can get

if you look for Del Tin swords, they are probably the mid-range swords... they are a little bit heavier than an original sword but are good quality. not sure if asian swords are made though (look them up on a search engine)

the very lowest in quality for swords that are actually a choice are made by C

basically, if u are buying a sword, u will want to definently ask these questions:

1. Is the sword made out of carbon steel? (if not, don't buy it)

2. Does it have a full tang? (tangs are the things that attach blades to the hilts) if it has a full tang, it can be used in combat... if it is rat-tail or half-tang, it will probably fall off the blade if it is hit by something hard.

3. how much does it weigh? (do not buy a single-handed sword if it weighs over 3 or 4lbs, and don't buy a two-handed if it weighs more than 7 or 8lbs... u'll want the twohander at probably 4-6 lbs)

that is all that is needed... apply these to other weapons too and u're on your way to having a good weapon

also, rat-tails or half-tangs are all right if u are not sparring... just don't hit anything with it. and don't buy stainless steel blades unless u want to hang it up... stainless steel is too brittle. carbon steel - aka spring steel - is the best and most accurate steel for metal weapons.

[Julien]

hmmmm, $1500 is a little steep for a good weapon

go to http://www.armor.com some of the best weapons your can get without buying from a custom smith... all of them are euro though (the falchion almost resembled a dao though)

http://www.vikingmetalworks.com has an awesome smith that does the best weapons i seen ever. he has some pieces that your can just pick - i've been eyeing the scimitar for a bit - or he can make you a custom sword.

he charges about $30 for an inch of steel but man, the best you can get

if you look for Del Tin swords, they are probably the mid-range swords... they are a little bit heavier than an original sword but are good quality. not sure if asian swords are made though (look them up on a search engine)

the very lowest in quality for swords that are actually a choice are made by CAS Iberia. they have a lot of stainless steel swords and rat-tail/half-tang swords... try not to get these. (but they are sometimes worth the price)

a good place to buy a sword for the price is at http://www.kriscutlery.com
they have euro swords, chinese swords, japanese swords, phillipino and others :P (i am looking at the leaf blade and the gladius)

basically, if u are buying a sword, u will want to definently ask these questions:

1. Is the sword made out of carbon steel? (if not, don't buy it)

2. Does it have a full tang? (tangs are the things that attach blades to the hilts) if it has a full tang, it can be used in combat... if it is rat-tail or half-tang, it will probably fall off the blade if it is hit by something hard.

3. how much does it weigh? (do not buy a single-handed sword if it weighs over 3 or 4lbs, and don't buy a two-handed if it weighs more than 7 or 8lbs... u'll want the twohander at probably 4-6 lbs)

that is all that is needed... apply these to other weapons too and u're on your way to having a good weapon

also, rat-tails or half-tangs are all right if u are not sparring... just don't hit anything with it. and don't buy stainless steel blades unless u want to hang it up... stainless steel is too brittle. carbon steel - aka spring steel - is the best and most accurate steel for metal weapons.

[Brad]

lol, my sring steel sword actually fell apart in a kids hands one day while practicing... he did a thrust and the whole thing just came apart and fell to the floor! I was cracking up

[FistOfTheNorthSide]

I do rat tail(northern) staff. Our staffs our flexable and made out of wax wood. It has to be so we can bong it and do specific techniques. Same thing with our spears for both southern and northern. Rigid stuff breaks. Swords have to have some flex or they can't cut through right. I saw a good show about civil war calvery sabers. They weren't flimsy at all just flexible. They showed slow-mos of them cutting through watermellons on horse back and explained how the sword had to flex to cut through and not break. The slo-mo was great. The sword got all distorted and tweeked during the cuts through the watermellon. They did a great job of explaining why swords had to flex from a western perspective. I realize there's all those crappy flimsy tinfoil swords out there. I got a crappy straight sword but its good enough to learn with.