Wushu weapons - why so flexible?

[Liokault]

Yes i saw that show to.

The sword had a huge bend in it after the guy on horse back hit the mellon at full charge but i think that holding the sword you wouls have belived it to be very stiff.

[Thomas Chen]

Hi guys

While current wushu swords are whippy and flexible, the real Chinese historical sabers and swords forged in the Imperial ages were not......they were more rigid and less flexible compared to the spring steel / combat steel lungchuan weapons, as they need mass and density to cut thru armour. flesh and bone in the old days......

The wushu weapons of today, in other words, may be cheap and good enough for practice but are absolutely inaccurate in terms of historical realism.

If you wanna see authentic and historical Chinese gim/jian and dao.......check out my website on Chinese swords:

http://thomaschen.freewebspace.com




Cheers
Thomas Chen

" The Chinese warrior 's most important weapons are his heart and mind......."

[Legendary_Fist]

Originally posted by CLFNole
Because their forms are more for show and less for actual fighting. Hence weapons that make a lot of noice are impressive to people who don't have a clue.

Peace.

The only person who doesn't have a clue is you.

Yes Wushu forms are very spectacular, however they have other benefits besides looking pretty. They also strengthen the body, and the mind, and contrary to popular belief, modern Wushu's forms have a lot to do with actual fighting.

Its clear that people like yourself are ignorant of Wushu, since the first form we learn, Chang Quan, is full of punches, kicks, locks, and throws.

[GLW]

I agree about Angel sword...nicest ones I have seen and the only hting that will get me to part with more than $100 or so for a sword.

But, if I don't want or have $1500 to drop on a sword, I would go with the competition ones that Beijing Imports carries. I really don't need a blade with an edge (but it would be nice). Not to mention that such a blade in many states is illegal...but here, I can't carry a sword, but I can get a concealed handgun permit.

[Julien]

Originally posted by Brad
lol, my sring steel sword actually fell apart in a kids hands one day while practicing... he did a thrust and the whole thing just came apart and fell to the floor! I was cracking up

most likely a rat-tail

i remember reading a story about someone when they were 13 and bought their first 'real sword'... or so the clerk said so

it was a rat-tail stainless steel sword. he was playing around with it and the blade fell off and stabbed him in the foot hehe


i think wushu blades are meant for performing because they are lighter so u can do more impressive things with them.

[Fu-Pow]

Yes Wushu forms are very spectacular, however they have other benefits besides looking pretty. They also strengthen the body, and the mind, and contrary to popular belief, modern Wushu's forms have a lot to do with actual fighting.

What does running and jumping around in a hot pink outfit with a 1/4 pound piece of tinfoil have to do with real fighting?

Everybody here who has been to a tournament has seen Wu Shu.

It's acrobatic but real fighting is not acrobatic. It's movie stuff.

Don't believe the hype.

[Legendary_Fist]

Originally posted by Fu-Pow


What does running and jumping around in a hot pink outfit with a 1/4 pound piece of tinfoil have to do with real fighting?

Everybody here who has been to a tournament has seen Wu Shu.

It's acrobatic but real fighting is not acrobatic. It's movie stuff.

Don't believe the hype.

Since when is something done at a tournament considered something someone does in an actual self defense encounter? What I do in a tournament is not what I do when my life is on the line. And contrary to popular belief, all of Wushu's forms are not based around high flying acrobatics.

I have also been to numerous tournaments, and traditional MA stylists can be just as flashy as their Wushu counterparts. Do you now want to say that their MA isn't "real fighting" because of what they do to earn a trophy? Howabout traditional arts where you're in an extremely low stance? I have yet to see anyone use an extremely low stance in a self-defense encounter. Getting into such stances would get you killed on the streets. However, no one here would doubt the significance of training in low stances to develop a firm foundation for balance and power.

In Wushu, the first thing we learn are low stances, and then we work our way up to the more advanced, acrobatic forms you see in tournaments. However, if you still doubt Wushu's fighting benefits, just look at Wushu instructors like Pan Quing Fu. His record speaks for itself.

If someone can do a spinning kick in the air, and land perfectly on their feet with little trouble, what makes you think they can't kick someone effectively on the ground?

[Liokault]

Fu-Pow


"What does running and jumping around in a hot pink outfit with a 1/4 pound piece of tinfoil have to do with real fighting?

Everybody here who has been to a tournament has seen Wu Shu.

It's acrobatic but real fighting is not acrobatic. It's movie stuff.

Don't believe the hype."

I think its worse than that Fu-pow......i think its a concerted effort by the chinese government to subdue and controle kung fu and martial arts in china.


Also can any one point me towards a "real" Jian? Im trying very hard to find one and can only find 3 places on the internet that sell them.

One sells very nice antique ones with mostly replacement handles and scabards etc but charges like $3000.

The other place that sells them is always sold out and says that real jian walk out of the shop fast.

The last place is Hanwei who sell damascus jian but i can not tell if they are any good as i know for a fact that another product they sell as damascus is in fact only laser etched!!!!

[Fu-Pow]

And contrary to popular belief, all of Wushu's forms are not based around high flying acrobatics.

Yeah...Yeah...I know the whole story. Old school Wushu training was supposedly way more hardcore and produced people like Jet Li who know lots of different "real" kung fu styles.

The new stuff is flashy and the practioners only train the compulsory forms and never did any "real" kung fu.

Well, let me put it this way... all kung fu is considered flashy by other styles...but there is a good reason for the "flash."

WuShu on the other hand adds flash for flashes sake. To me it seems that we are getting too far away from the original intent that forms were supposed to serve.

They are one component of training. They are supposed to give the concepts or principles behind the style. What the "concept" looks like when its actually applied might look quite a bit different.

But Wu Shu essentlially severes the connection between form and application. Sure, there are probably Wu Shu dudes out there who can fight pretty good San Sou, but they certainly aren't using any of the concepts out of there Wu Shu forms... or they'd get there ass handed to them.

Where as when I spar using my traditional style I can take "concepts" and apply them in a real fight. It's not as far of stretch for me to go from form to application.

Yau Sam

[Julien]

Originally posted by Liokault



Also can any one point me towards a "real" Jian? Im trying very hard to find one and can only find 3 places on the internet that sell them.

One sells very nice antique ones with mostly replacement handles and scabards etc but charges like $3000.

The other place that sells them is always sold out and says that real jian walk out of the shop fast.

The last place is Hanwei who sell damascus jian but i can not tell if they are any good as i know for a fact that another product they sell as damascus is in fact only laser etched!!!!

why would anyone want to use an antique sword? i would buy it and lock it in a case. (for $3000)

honestly, adequate and good swords are not very expensive... adequate at maybe $250-$400 and good at $400-$800
and excellent is at about $800-1400

the most expensive sword i have ever heard of was $5000 and i bet it wasn't even worth the amount.

[Liokault]

It dont have to be antique but it has to be an "real" jian....not a flimsy replica or competition type one.


BTW has any one ever had a weapon disintergrate on them? I know my teacher has had a Dao split near the handle during a work out against a spear.

[Julien]

meh, all swords u buy now are replicas but about half of them are from from flimsy

if u want a good jian for a good price, go to http://www.kriscutlery.com i think it's in the chinese swords section

i've asked about kris cutlery and i've been told, 'good swords for the price'. the only thing i don't like about them is that their swords come sharpened... i don't know about u, but i like my ears.

for a better 'jian', go to http://www.vikingmetalworks.com and email Glen. ask him to make one. ($$$ expensive)

[Legendary_Fist]

Originally posted by Fu-Pow


Yeah...Yeah...I know the whole story. Old school Wushu training was supposedly way more hardcore and produced people like Jet Li who know lots of different "real" kung fu styles.

The new stuff is flashy and the practioners only train the compulsory forms and never did any "real" kung fu.

Well, let me put it this way... all kung fu is considered flashy by other styles...but there is a good reason for the "flash."

WuShu on the other hand adds flash for flashes sake. To me it seems that we are getting too far away from the original intent that forms were supposed to serve.

And once again, its clear that you're clearly ignorant of the difference between Wushu for trophies, and Wushu for self defense. Of course someone is going to add flash to their form to win a trophy. However, the competitive aspect of Wushu is not the only part of Wushu training.

They are one component of training. They are supposed to give the concepts or principles behind the style. What the "concept" looks like when its actually applied might look quite a bit different.

But Wu Shu essentlially severes the connection between form and application. Sure, there are probably Wu Shu dudes out there who can fight pretty good San Sou, but they certainly aren't using any of the concepts out of there Wu Shu forms... or they'd get there ass handed to them.

Yeah, I'd like to see you take on sifu Pan Quing Fu. I'd enjoy watching who's arse gets handed to whom. I guarentee it wont be Sifu Fu's.

Where as when I spar using my traditional style I can take "concepts" and apply them in a real fight. It's not as far of stretch for me to go from form to application.

And you're being foolish if you believe that someone can't take the forms of Chang Quan, or Nan Quan and derive combat applications from within them.

[Liokault]

Oh come on Legendary_Fist. Do you realise how much damage so called "Wushu" has and continues to do to the CMA?

Its a synical distortion of all that the martial arts should be and as far as im concerned should be totaly ignored.

I also resent the hyjacking of the term "WuShu" by this crap to name its self.

[Brad]

Traditionalists are the ones killing off there own arts now. No quality control, and too much childish hatred.