Internal supplementation

[zen_celt]

Tangentially related to my other post on religion in MA, I'm curious about supplemental internal methods such as meditation and Chi Kung. These are things that can be done on their own regardless of style and, in most cases, religion. Why is it that so many MAists find the need to supplement external training with internal training (morality aside)? I've heard of many anecdotes where people turn to internal styles/methods of training because they've gone so far externally that they cannot grow in that aspect without internal study. Why is this? What makes the need for internal study so great? Is it the added power(which comes from where)? Or just a balance thing(for lack of a better term)?
-ZC

[prana]

There comes a time, when you know no matter how good a fighter you are, and how many people you impress, you will become old and every moment from the day youare borned you are dying. No matter how good a fighter you are, the greatest fight is with yourself, and the things that you do in this life. I think this could possibly be one of many reasons ppl convert ?

Another possible reason, there comes a time in your trainig when you become good, and finally realise the existence of qi experientially, and suddenly, the science, the logics, the physics, the chemistry, the public speaking and the calculating skills you learnt throughout life is nothing but a complicated puzzle that leads to a warp of dumness called intelligence.

[Royal Dragon]

∟u(k i$ Whε╖ ΣßP && Σ1P i$ 0vεrWri77ε∩ by s7rcpy(*α, *ß)) && s1zε0╒(ß) > s1zε0╒(εggc0dε, d1d $0mε1 $ªy PGID ≡ r00t ¿

This is some sort of bizzar language. I have attempted to translate, but only got a short way.

Luck is when ????????????? is overwritten by ????????????? sizeo ?????????? ?????, did some one say ???????


The rest is jibberish to me, can you fill in the blanks?

[FeloniousMonk]

chi or qi, has been recognized in alot of religions. In the Yaqui religion it is referred to luminious fibers that come from your stomach. these fibers allow you to be able to perform extraodinary acts of equillibrium. these fibers can't be seen unless you are a man of knowledge, in the occult it is known simply as your aura. in MA first comes the physical, then the mental, then the spiritual. This doesn't mean to practice in that order. Practice all your exercises equally. It just happens to develop that way.

what style(s) do you practice? How long have you been training? I hope you found a teacher that isn't B.S. that's the hardest part in MA finding a great teacher that is right for you. Don't settle for anything less, for any reason. I know it is hard to beleive something you don't understand, especially when morans who have not even experienced chi, first hand say it's B.S. because their in MA to become a "bad@ss" not to express themselves or complete themselves.

If you do have a great teacher, do not question him do as he says and have faith in him as a teacher.

If you would like to spar sometime please let me know, this goes for anyone who reads this, I enjoy a friendly match to test my kung-fu against other styles.

I hope your training goes well

[prana]

Originally posted by Royal Dragon
∟u(k i$ Whε╖ ΣßP && Σ1P i$ 0vεrWri77ε∩ by s7rcpy(*α, *ß)) && s1zε0╒(ß) > s1zε0╒(εggc0dε, d1d $0mε1 $ªy PGID ≡ r00t ¿

This is some sort of bizzar language. I have attempted to translate, but only got a short way.

Luck is when ????????????? is overwritten by ????????????? sizeo ?????????? ?????, did some one say ???????


The rest is jibberish to me, can you fill in the blanks?

Hi Royal Dragon,

I was bored too when I did all that It really doesnt mean that much. Its assembler stuff But if you are really curious, and you must know, .....

Does this help ? No luck = access violation 0xc0000005 address 0x41414141 could not be executed

lol of course AAAA is kinda silly but its a good hint...

[Maestro1700]

felonius watch out what you say here about MA and spirituality,internal external,and qi

for one thing you have a good chance of getting flammed by apoweyn or others like him

also..this could be a really interesting thread so ill give my oppinion on some of these things

in MA first comes the physical, then the mental, then the spiritual.

careful what you say here..for one thing your wrong, not all MA follow this three fold path, infact few nowadays do, correctly anyway

for example..western boxing..i dont feel its a martial art but alot of people here do, and when i say boxing i mean western commercialized boxing ie prize matches etc and it definately does not fit the description above

now, alot of eastern arts like you obviously practice do, shaolin gung fu, gung fu ingeneral..except modernized wushu, imo its still gung fu because from what i know the practitioners do derive most of their teachings from authentic gung fu and they practice qi gong training etc but its basically external and even though they use chen style taiji, bagu and xing yi to compete..i think most of the power or original flavor is lost in those systems, when reffering to wushu

now personally i believe the ultimate aim of shaolin gung fu is to reach enlightenment, because it incorporates chi kung/meditation training and zen buddhisim into its systems now, an ignorant person would say.."oh so shaolin gung fu is the way to reach enlightenment?" no, im saying its a way to get there, there are many ways, but the main reason for the shaolin monks of yore to practice gung fu, was to keep their bodies fit(so they could practice meditation, and defend themselves efficiently) to practice meditation so they could develope a one pointed mind(so they could direct qi, and have a better understanding of cosmic reality) and to attain buddhahood(enlightenment)

now on the original subject why practice internal training? because static, mechanical strength in time weakens as the person grows older and the larger your muscles and body become the slower and less powerful your strikes become. internal training developes intristic energy, creates harmony in the body, trains your breathing, which in turn trains your mind and breath to work simultaneously, greatly increasing your stamina, for prolonged combat abilities this is just a general idea of what internal training can bring..it can also help a practitioner sustain blows without being injured,increase mental and spiritual cultivation, etc etc

also, i urge you to word your posts carefully..usually its posts like yours that get flammed alot by ignorant people or just gimps.. and those are usually the most popular because people here love to insult each other, its immature, its juvenile, imo its their nature(for the time being anyway)
and maybe this thread could become interesting even though it belongs in the qi gong section of this forum..i doubt it will become large enough to get a good convo going about this subject..these good one never do

[Shadow Dragon]

Hi Zen_Celt.

Chi-Kung are Body conditioning exercises.
Meditation are exercises that condition the Mind.
Nothing religious in either.
Most MA will reach a stage where the need to transcend the pure physical /mechanial movements in order to become better or they might need to do those exercises to preserve physical and mental conditoning into old age.

Yes, they can be done outside of any System, but most systems got exercises that were custom tailored for that specific system.

Peace.

[prana]

Originally posted by Shadow Dragon
Hi Zen_Celt.

Chi-Kung are Body conditioning exercises.

Hatha Yoga, body positional arts.

Meditation are exercises that condition the Mind.

Body and mind are inseperable unless in shamata or in death.

Nothing religious in either.
Most MA will reach a stage where the need to transcend the pure physical /mechanial movements in order to become better or they might need to do those exercises to preserve physical and mental conditoning into old age.

Yes, they can be done outside of any System, but most systems got exercises that were custom tailored for that specific system.

Peace. [/QUOTE]

Just some food for thought.

[Maestro1700]

Chi-Kung are Body conditioning exercises.
Meditation are exercises that condition the Mind.
Nothing religious in either.

now shadow..like someone said to me on this forum..to speak in absolutes bla bla is ignorant so i dont think your above statement is valid..actually to me it absolutely isnt when reffering to religion

for one thing meditation condition the mind for what? have you even practiced it or contemplated what its used for? meditation is believe by buddhist to be the only way to reach enlightenment, it conditions the mind to develope a one pointed mind, help direct chi flow etc

i could go on but i dont wanna **** anyone off..

[Shadow Dragon]

Maestro.

Buddhism, Tao, Shinto and many other asian "Religions" are NOT religions in the "Christian" sense. So there goes your argument.

for one thing meditation condition the mind for what? have you even practiced it or contemplated what its used for? meditation is believe by buddhist to be the only way to reach enlightenment, it conditions the mind to develope a one pointed mind, help direct chi flow etc

With this you show that you, sir, know very little about meditation, it depends on the purpose of the medidation.
Medidation can take many forms and some can even include prayer similar to the practice by Christian churches.

There are not many clear-cuts or absolute in asian cultures and thus my statement was acutally open-ended and not absolute.

Now if I had said that Chi-Kung is a way to toughen the Body it would have been an absolute.
But there are MANY ways & purposes to which the Body & Mind can be conditioned.

Peace.
Peace.

[Wu-Xing]

∟u(k i$ Whe+ SßP && S1P i$ 0verWri77en by s7rcpy(*a, *ß)) && s1ze0+(ß) > s1ze0+(eggc0de, d1d $0me1 $ªy PGID = r00t ¿

its basically saying that luck is when your bufferoverflow code works and you gain root on a system.

s7rcpy=strcpy ,which is a unix command that copies a string without using bounds checking

[Maestro1700]

Buddhism, Tao, Shinto and many other asian "Religions" are NOT religions in the "Christian" sense. So there goes your argument

no sorry bro, but i already am well aware of that, and im not coming from a christian pov, maybe you are and thats why you wrote that but im not

i dont even think you understand what the word religion means

because for one thing, buddhists do believe in the existence of gods, buddhas,heavens,and alternate dimesions

maybe you meant eastern beliefs arent considered religions in a western sense or the other way around

for one thing meditation condition the mind for what? have you even practiced it or contemplated what its used for? meditation is believe by buddhist to be the only way to reach enlightenment, it conditions the mind to develope a one pointed mind, help direct chi flow etc

did i say it didnt do anything else, or wasnt used for another purpose? no i didnt and your responce was typical of a person who takes these forums to seriously, personally and without and open mind, and an absolute, obsolete pov

and what do you think prayer is? you close your eyes and clasp your hands together and focus your mind on your god, or gods etc how is that not a form of meditation? anyone with an eye a ear and a nose can understand that buddy.

why dont you reread my last post, i ended it with saying

i could go on but i dont wanna **** anyone off..

you know why i said that? because you all are a bunch of little babies, and i have to end my posts with **** like this so you all dont take it personally and respond like you did, im so sick of these threads where you guys take every little ****ing thing personally and make arguements like yours, its so ****ing immature and hypocritical at the same time when you profess to be mature and moral ma's

gg on the posts bro

[Shadow Dragon]

Maestro.

Go to your little corner and jack of to your little dreams and ideas.

I want even try to pick your rubbish little post apart. to show that you got no more than surface knowledge of what you are talking about.

You are not even amusing, just another 17yr old ****head that thinks he knows all and can now cause trouble to make himself feel good.

Get away from your Books and start practicing what you preach and maybe in 10~20yrs we will take you seriously.

You also got NO Idea who you are talking to hear or what their backgrounds, knowledge, ages and experiences are and thus make assumptations that are 100% wrong.
But than I doubt that, people like you will still be the same when they die.

And your little snite remarks like:
i dont even think you understand what the word religion means
Are neither funny nor accurate.

They only show why I and everybody else should put you on the "ignore" list. But guess that is the same they said to you on the previous Boards.

If you wanna fight or show off, come to meet me face to face and we will see what really gives with you.
I guess you are just a 17yr old pimple faced nerd, with a computer that is underweight, chicken chested, got Bruce Lee wet dreams and needs a boost as he can't get a life or a GF.
Take your nose out of the Books from which you think you learned what you sprout here.
Bye, Bye, you have gone to my ignore list.

P.S.: The type of "nuts" you need are NOT sold in the Shops.

[Maestro1700]

shadow with a post like that i dont think i want anything to do with what you know..

as far as i can see its corrupted your whole way of life..if it even began good in the first place its sure gone sour

"If you wanna fight or show off, come to meet me face to face and we will see what really gives with you."

rofl what is that a threat? please what do we know about you besides the n/a in your profile

i dont hide my age like you do or my loc or anything else besides that

if you want a fight you know where to find me bro, and if you really were wiser than me you never would have come close to posting that ..pathetic attempt to slander me, my ideals, or my oppinions..

i met your post with an intellectual reply and some anger..all i saw in your post was..well like you said rubbish

and its no wonder you put me on ignore list, its just no wonder thats all im gonna say..

as for anyone else...i doubt im on anyone elses ignore list..i might have posted a few times with anger/ignorance or just in a hurry and miss worded some things..but as for you, i really dont care you obviously have nothing to teach me, and thats the only reason i come to this or any forum concerning ma, but now im seriously starting to doubt the effectiveness of these things as they attract alot of ..well thats that im ending it there

[Shadow Dragon]

Maestro:

Especially for you the following saying:

"Teens! Tired of your stupid parents telling you what to do? Act now! Move out, get a job and pay your own bills, while you still know everything."

Nuff said.

P.S.: It will be my sig as of NOW.