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Thread: Bruce Lee this,Bruce Lee that.!!

  1. #46
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    part 2

    his injuries as being in a car accident. It is reported that Bruce, after his fight with Won Jack Man, had been displeased with his performance and that is why he began to change his art. I recall having had dinner with Bruce shortly after that fight. At that moment, he had been most pleased with himself, considering that Won Jack Man was so very difficult to hit because he kept running and spinning and way from Bruce’s attack. It wasn't until Bruce was finally able to catch up to Man that they went to the ground where Bruce finished the fight. Knowing Bruce, I give Won Jack Man tremendous credit for his skills in avoidance. I think he was smart not to stand his ground with someone the likes of Bruce. At this period in Bruce’s life, he believed in ending the fight quick within the first few seconds. But this fight went on a bit with Bruce chasing his adversary with chain punches (straight blast). Anyone who has ever thrown bunches of chain punches knows how easy it is to tire quickly, since the activity requires involvement of Type II, Fast Twitch B muscle fibres for explosive outburst. Those type of fibres do indeed tire quickly before giving over to Type II, Fast Twitch A fibres, that also tire fast. Nevertheless, the outcome of a somewhat prolonged fight would have been adequate reason for Bruce Lee to more closely examine his method. Obviously, he viewed it as a problem and, like in the past, he set out to solve the problem.

    I have told the story of how when in 1964 Ed Parker presented his first International Karate Tournament in Long Beach, where he invited a young and virtually unknown Bruce Lee to come and demonstrate his gung fu. For his demonstrators and forms competitors, Ed had had made available a special room where they could rehearse. In the room surveying the talent was Sensei Oshima, direct descendent of Funakoshi. Accompanying Sensei, Oshima was his highest ranking black belt, Caylor Atkins, a legend in his own right, who told me this story. At the time, neither Oshima nor Caylor had ever heard of Bruce Lee, nor had just about anyone else in the auditorium. Only Ed Parker knew of Bruce's economy of motion, speed, and power that were so incredibly unbelievable. Oshima and Atkins were standing in the center of the room when Oshima's eyes fastened on a handsome young man. As Bruce walked past, Oshima pointed his finger and said, "That one.. He is the only one here who can do anything"! Without having before ever seen Bruce Lee, Oshima was able to sense the young man’s ability simply by the way he carried his body. My friends, this was in 1964. Jeet Kune Do, as such, had not yet been invented.

    Shortly before Bruce has left Hong Kong, he and Hawkins went to train with an old man who had mastered a number of gung fu styles. Although Bruce was only nineteen when he left Hong Kong he had already developed himself as a martial artist and a fighter. In Seattle, he would go on to train with an old man who had belonged to a Chinese ballet troupe (gung fu) and, who would take on all challengers whenever the troupe had entered a new town. The old man, among his other skills, was a Master of Red Boat Wing Chun. Bruce was already quite extraordinary. At 135 lbs., he could easily handle a 225 lb., U.S. Army Heavy Weight Boxing Champion/street fighter, not to mention the other four boxers in the original Seattle group, and the three judoka, one of which was a U.S. Judo Champion, Charlie Woo.

    However, it was not Bruce the fighter that I feel is so much underestimated, rather Bruce the martial artist. Bruce has been underestimated because the level of his knowledge has been underestimated. Whatever people think JKD is all about, I can assure them that Bruce had his personal JKD that consisted of a lot more than strong side forward, straight lead, straight blast, some footwork, kicking, timing, etc. A lot more, indeed! In the Tao of Jeet Kune Do, page 24, is one of my favorite sentences: “It is not difficult to trim and hack off the non-essentials in outward physical structure; however, to shun away, to minimize inwardly is another matter. “Inwardly,” wrote Bruce. For a great deal of his personal training was to dig deep within himself. It was not technique that mattered, but how the tools, themselves, worked in relation to the body’s structure. To dig this deep he had to feel, explore, and analyze. He had to turn his study within to best learn how to maximize forces without resorting to using muscular strength. He taught himself how to use the short arcs of the joints, tendons, and bones for maximizing power. He eliminated intention in his initial movement, because with it he would not be as fast. He eliminated choice reaction, because it not only hamper his speed, but sacrificed the all-important beat in his timing. Instead, he would make his opponent make the choices. This was the foundation for what he called his “Fistic Law,” a worthwhile study unto itself. Bruce had gone within to study how to eliminate tension. Tension at the wrong time could become a dangerous tool for the opponent to use against you. A tense arm, shoulder, or body could act like a handle on a t-cup, giving the opponent a tool to disrupt you. Bruce’s way was to not create a handle within himself, but instead create the tool in his opponent.

  2. #47
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    part 3

    How often have I heard knowledgeable martial artists and even kinesologists attribute Bruce Lee’s amazing speed to having superior genetics, claiming that he must have been born rich with the right kind of muscle fibres. The reality is that nothing could be further from the truth. To be sure, Bruce Lee was faster than thought. Aside from the fact that he was in a trained state of physical condition, his lightning speed was not the result of the proportion of genetically prescribed, different types of muscle fibers. Rather, his speed was the direct result of unique martial principles and mechanics, heightened by his own internal discoveries. In the scene with the young monk in Enter the Dragon, Bruce slaps him on the forehead, telling him to feel or he will miss all of that heavenly glory. Hawkins Cheung likes to call Bruce, "The fastest gun fighter". Before Bruce came to the U.S. he was already greased lightning. Consider that there are four kinds of speed: start speed, body speed, hand speed, and reaction speed. Bruce's greatest speed was his start speed. Incredibly, it is the start speed where others are slow. Start speed is how fast can you move from zero. In Enter the Dragon Bruce demonstrates his start speed in the scene with O'hara (Bob Wall). The editor who cut the film watched the scene over and over again and was not able to detect the beginning of Bruce's movement. It was as though Bruce had finished without ever having started. He was just there! Bruce had fast hands and fast reaction speed, but not the fastest by his own estimation. His fast hands were once again the result of proper principles and mechanics, while his reaction speed was largely based on his ability to read his opponent's intention. Joe Lewis has said that Bruce was the fastest man that ever stood before him. After over 41 years in martial arts, I attest to the same.

    Shortly before Bruce's death, Bruce and his old friend, Hawkins were able to spend some time together. Of course, every second was dedicated to their love of fighting. As he had done before, Bruce updated Hawkins on his own development. Finally, Hawkins asked him exactly what was JKD? Bruce smiled and said, "Pak sao and hip". Pak sao and hip! That was Bruce's own definition of Jeet Kune Do to his close friend and long time training partner, speaking in Cantonese, and at a mutually very high level that few could arise to, or even begin to understand.

    So then, what is pak sao? Translated, pak sao means "slapping hand". However, pak doesn't really slap, at all. In reality, the technique of pak sao involves a great deal of information learned by close attention to details. Be sure, pak and slap do not share the same energies, nor even the same results. You may execute a slap, but not Bruce. His was pak! Nevertheless, pak sao has still another meaning in wing chun. It's in the nature of the meaning whereby Bruce spoke when he defined Jeet Kune Do as, "pak sao and hip". Pak sao's nature is to intercept. Thus, the name Jeet Kune Do, The Way of the Intercepting Fist. Actually, there are only three ways to intercept. Ahead of the opponent's beat, at the same time as his beat, or behind his beat. We call this a half-beat ahead, same beat, or half- beat behind. To go a half-beat ahead is to go at his intention, before he actually fires his muscles. In pak sao it means to cut off his movement. It means to SHUT HIM DOWN! Translated, Jeet also means "to cut off". This cutting off was Bruce Lee's #1 specialty. Bruce could shut you down before you could go. You couldn't start because he already hit at the very instant you intended to start. To go at the same beat as your opponent is to start at the same time. The interception takes place in the area generally half-way between you and the opponent, a little ahead or behind depending on the speed differences between you. This is a good time to avoid, intersect, jam, dissolve, disrupt. To go a half-beat behind is good for slipping, countering, and going to a takedown. All are within the concept of pak sao. The Five Ways of Attack are based on these three timings. To go between the beats is to go behind one beat and head of the other. Bruce said, "pak sao and hip". So what exactly did he mean by hip? It is the action of the hip and all mechanics that effect it based on a unique set of principles learned and studied in Wing Chun. People have said that Bruce Lee abandoned his Wing Chun. They say this simply because they are not able to see the Wing Chun inside his Jeet Kune Do. Nevertheless, the Wing Chun is there. And, it could be felt! Bruce's Wing Chun was in its principles and mechanics that were at the beginning and in the final end of his punch, kick, trap, jam, or whatever. It was the way his body worked as a unit, externally and internally. It was at the very core of all that he did. It is how he hit so fast, so hard. It was why he could shut down and overpower bigger and stronger men with relative ease. It was why his traps worked when so many others claim that trapping does not work. Ask James DeMille, the heavy weight boxer whether or not Bruce’s trapping worked. You may have all seen the photograph of Bruce doing an isometric exercise on the Smith machine where it appears that he was strengthening his forearms and biceps. In actuality, Bruce was training the structure of his hip. It was because of this structure of the hip that he could raise huge dumbbells straight out in front of him like no weightlifter could possibly dream of doing. Bruce modified his Wing Chun stance to the Jun Fan stance, and then to the Jeet Kune Do stance, yet all shared the same hip structure for applying huge forces with minimal effort, and with only the slightest adjustments. For the JKD'r who has not trained the hip structure, he can never hope to achieve the same efficiency rating as did Bruce, when using his methodology.

    Bruce's start speed came from “Non-intention,” as he called it. Non-intention is NOT the same as non-telegraph. I am always amazed at how Bruce came to figure out non-intention whose origin came from Wing Chun. However, Bruce took Non-intention to another level. Bruce would often demonstrate incredible feats of strength, power, and speed based on nothing more than mere mechanical advantages. So incredible were the performances that onlookers could only doubt their authenticity. The truth is that these extraordinary feats can be performed by almost anyone, aside from two finger pushups and some his abdominal feats, but those too with practice.

    At the core of Bruce's art, is what I refer to as his inner game. This is the part that you don’t see, but it’s the part that makes everything work as well as it does. It involves, among other things, how structure can work in two separate modes, independently or together. The first mode is the Physical Structure, the hip and tools. Second is what I call the Vital Structure. It is when the Physical Structure is compromised that the Vital Structure must take over.

    Bruce researched every avenue for improving himself. He also had the faculty to explore his own kinesthetic awareness. In other words, he took the time to feel and analyze what he felt. He not only looked to the outside, but he dared look to the inside where he reached not only for answers, but for the very questions, themselves. And what came out of all of this was truly stunning. Bruce had developed more than a martial art. He developed extraordinary means and certainties by which an average person could aspire to and reach a true level of mastery. One last thing, to learn to get to his personal truth, Bruce did not have to compete in the ring. He did it on rooftops and in the street.
    [

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    Website/Discussion Forum - http://chihand.com


    RF-

  3. #48
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    Thumbs up

    Nice and informative article, Rafael

  4. #49
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    Make no mistake - a lot of Bruce Lee's quickness was genetic in nature.

    You can't TEACH that type of explosiveness. I teach violin (lots of the same skills as kung fu) and people either have that explosiveness or they don't.

    That said, I can name no less than 10 Chinese guys I know in real life that have that kind of quickness - myself being one of them. It's not that I'm so extraordinary, it's that Bruce Lee's excellent quickness is common in the Chinese (particularly those of Southern descent like me).

    I can SEE from films that Bruce Lee had a whole different art to him that very few people knew about. You can see from his breath control and coiled step that his TRUE martial art was not displayed in movie fight scenes.

    When I think of Lee, I think of a guy with chin tucked in to cover his larynx who jabs and grapples like a mixed martial artist today. He was obviously an EXTREMELY aggressive fighter.

  5. #50

    Ryu and Bruce

    Ryu: (pointing down below) See? They're talking about you again.

    Bruce: They do that a lot, don't they?

    Ryu: Make you feel special?

    Bruce: Well, not really. Maybe a little uncomfortable, man!

    Ryu: I liked the last posts from that website. Pretty cool, don't ya think?

    Bruce: (taking a sip of a mixed fruit juice.) Yeah it was flattering you know? But man, people talk about me too much.

    Ryu: (rolling his eyes) Whatever, don't act like you don't enjoy it.

    Bruce: Guess it keeps me alive in some strange way...

    Ryu: You did a lot with your life. You should rest happy. I don't think anyone's going to forget the name "Bruce Lee." That was your ultimate goal wasn't it?

    Bruce: (laughs) Maybe. But hey, there's nobody out there that can't do the same, you know? Hey! You want another juice, man? A cola or something?

    Ryu: Yeah thanks! Juice is fine. This thread will probably start up again soon anyway. Good thing we've got good seats!

    .......................




    (before anyone takes offense for whatever reason.... I always do this on the main board. No disrespect for the dead....on the contrary, this is how I give my utmost respect.)

    Ryu
    "No judo! NO NO!"




    "One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

    Attain your highest ability, and continue past it. Emotion becomes movement. Express that which makes you; which guides you. Movement and Mind without hesitation. Physical spirituality...
    This is Jeet Kune Do....

  6. #51
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    I found this hawkings Cheungs ( mentioned in the article above) website, he has an article on it, where he says that Bruce's biggest weakness in WC was, that in when doing chi sao with him, he would expand his arms towards Hawkins, and then that was easily countered by pulling his arms down and off-balance, because he had a weak lower-body (bad rooting). I dont know if it is correctly quoted, you can read it for yourselves. www.hawkinscheung.com

    just something for the BL-bashers, especially WC-ers

  7. #52
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    Hawkins Cheung is an excellent Wing Chun stylist, but he's no match for Lee as a pure fighter.

    Cheung might prevail (if lucky) in chi sao, which is NOT a real fighting situation and is just a drill. Even in chi sao, I'd rather face Cheung than Lee (who on video has SUBLIME chi sao) anyday.

    Just because a guy doesn't have a root doesn't mean he can't fight. Bruce Lee was extremely quick on his feet and was very hard to catch. He hit hard by putting the momentum of his entire body behind his strikes, yet it was hard to hit him because he was clearly extremely slippery.

    Definitely in a streetfight I'd rather fight Cheung than Lee. No matter how good I became at kung fu, a guy with as much killer instinct and trained reflex as Lee can HURT ME no matter what the outcome is.

  8. #53
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    Yes, I agree with all that you say HKV, I just wandered what the WC people would say about Bruce doing 'bad' chi sao.

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    Yes, I agree with all that you say HKV, I just wandered what the WC people would say about Bruce doing 'bad' chi sao.

  10. #55
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    WTF?!

  11. #56
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    Of the WC people I've seen who think Lee does "bad" chi sao, I will tell you that 100% of them would get HAMMERED by Lee in a chi sao confrontation.

    The lesser the ability, the greater the arrogance.

  12. #57
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    The Lesser the ability, the greater the arrogance

    True, true. (I have no experience whatsoever myself, I shouldn't be saying that )

  13. #58
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    Rafael

    That was longest bunch of posts I've ever seen on any thread. I only want to comment on one part though. The part about the Wong Jack Man fight. By all indications (and none of these include Linda Lee's story since she's just trying to make lots of $$) there was no decisive victor in the fight. David Chin (witness) says this in his recent article in KF Magazine, Bill Chen (witness) a Tai Chi master who was Wong's friend said this in the infamous Black Belt article on this subject, and MA promoter Ming Lum who knew both men has voiced his doubts that Bruce Lee beat Wong into submission on the ground.

    As David Chin says in his article, Wong tripped onto a window showcase that was propped up on the wall and Bruce jumped on him. Whetever punches Bruce let fly were either blocked or ineffectual because he couldn't get full mount. the fight was then halted by somebody calling out for them to stop. All witnesses who count have said that there were no injuries on Wong besides a scratch above his eye (received after Bruce deceived him during the handshake).

    It just doesn't make any sense. Bruce changes his whole style after it took him too long to win!!?? I'm sorry but that has always sounded like a bunch of horse dung to me. Has there ever been any UFC fighter who changed his style of fighting after the fight went into three rounds? Did "the Beast" Bob Sapp change his "beast" style after that long-ass Pride fight with Kimo?

    Let's face it all of you BL fans who compare him to Ultraman, the fight was a DRAW. This is further proven by Bruce's wanting to have a rematch with Wong in ten years. That might even indicate that Bruce regognized Wong as being the better fighter. Since when have you ever heard of Bruce Lee agreeing to or wanting a rematch with anyone? I'm not saying Bruce wasn't good, but it's well known that he was c0cky. A rematch against someone he considered himself superior to would not be his style. If you asked me, it sounds like Wong Jack Man was toying with Bruce. He didn't use any of his kicks and he mainly fought defensively.
    Last edited by Siu Lum Fighter; 08-27-2006 at 01:33 AM. Reason: the word "c0cky" (I don't see the big deal)
    The three components of combat are 1) Speed, 2) Guts and 3) Techniques. All three components must go hand in hand. One component cannot survive without the others." (WJM - June 14, 1974)

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