Hey Rogue check out this pic

[chokeyouout]

I know you posed these questions to Able, but I can accurately answer them as well.

1.) How come so many Immigrants want to get into Euorpean and other Countries.

So many?How many is so many?Between our Texas and San Diego borders the U.S. has more border traffic than anywhere in the world.Thats not even refrencing our history and Ellis Island in the late 1800's.

2.) How come other Countries got better technologies than the USA.

What other countries?The U.S. is on the cutting edge for nano,micro,aeronautical,parabolic,medicinal and naval technologies just to name a very small few.

3.) How come other Countries got a higher level of education.

What countries?The U.S. has the strongest institutions for higher learning bar- none.No argument there.If your referring to student achievement averages then you need to not a few things.
We cater to every level of age and intelligence bracket regardless of race or denomination.We are much more intellectually diverse if you know what I mean.How many Armenians, Mexicans and Blacks are in a pre algebra class in Osaka Japan?We don't mechanically spit out erudites like some countries, Here it's a opportunity for all.

4.) How come other Countries have a higher standard of living.
Again, what countries?Your questions are broken and beg answers of generalizations.You might try formating them correctly.

Except for a very small handfull of countries we have set the standard of living for the world.

5)How come other Countries have a higher level of good & solid social services like medical and so on.

We set the standard for social services.Are you talking about public medicine?Here's an idea, go to Mexico and have any procedure that requires an anathesiologist.Good luck bro.

6.) How come other Countries have lower crime rates.

Per capita?Look at our population numbers before you say that.

[Shadow Dragon]

Chokeyouout.

I don't need to answer your questions.

Because the answers are common knowledge, but by the looks of it to everybody except you and some other Americans that keep humbing that "American Dream" and delusion of how big and grand you Guys are.

Most of what you stated in your Post is propaganda and NOT true or even based on real facts.

America has a lot of good and grand things, but for every good thing you invent you also import 1 or 2 things from other Countries. Accept that and move on.

But keep dreaming your dreams and living your lives believing those facts yourself.

[Richie]

Why are we still talking about this?

SD: I really don't know any Americans that put themselves on a high horse(not joking). However, I noticed that foreign always say "Americans think they are the best!" then Americans defend themselves.

Believe me you should be happy that America is the country with the power. I really wouldn't want a Middle Eastern country or China or other countries to have that power.

[ewallace]

Okay. I tried not to get involved with this one but I just can't restrain myself.

Shadow Dragon your stereotyping and gross generalizations of Americans is sheer ignorance. Plus you don't even have the b a l l s to state what country you are from. Maybe you should try france. They have plenty of cheese for all of your whine.

[chokeyouout]

Please show me where I supplied answers based on propaganda and I'll gladly show you the facts.Your accusing me of propaganda while you can't even accurately ask a question.Without pointing out or refuting my points the argument is useless.Keep on hating the U.S.We'll be there when you need us.

[Shadow Dragon]

Keep on hating the U.S.


Last time, extra slowly for you.

I DON'T hate the USA, but DO hate your arrogance and attitude and unwillingness to see and listen to other people.

We'll be there when you need us.

Like this statement.
I can assure you that I will never need your nor your countries assistance.

The Cold war is over, time for the Big Brother thing do die along with NATO and many other things that have become useless.

The rest of the World has done well without the USA for a long time and will continue to do so, regardless if you Guys got your finger in the pie or not.

We are NOT depending or in need of you, got that finally??

Middle East conflict won't be affected by US action, unless you control ALL sides by force. That is the reality.

You Guys can make a local, temporare impact at most.
It might seem important & good now, but in the long run not much will change.
And this is the self-delusion I am talking about.

At the moment there is only 1 Super Power left.
History shows that if there is only 1 of a type left, it becoms weaker and gets killed of by many smaller things, the other option it turns "imperial" and tries to take over/control the rest.
Personally, I see the later case developing right now.
So rather than wait for your extinction of power join forces and work along with others to mkae a difference like:
1.) Pollution control
2.) International War Tribunial( minus excemptions for US only)
3.) and so on.

Keep insisting on your superiority, power, might and in the long run it will affect you negatively and that is a given.

Or somebody will force you to walk the big talk we keep hearing.

If the USA is sooo good & powerfull, why don't they do more improve the World create World peace and so on.

But I see tht you are sooo powerfull that Hussein, Arafat, Castro, Sharon, bin Laden and the rest of the world cream their pants just hearing you talk.

Peace and out.

[ewallace]

I DON'T hate the USA, but DO hate your arrogance and attitude and unwillingness to see and listen to other people.

Exactly what I was talking about.

Middle East conflict won't be affected by US action

That's funny. The Palestinan LEADER HIMSELF said that it can only be resolved with STRONG US intervention. Of course I am sure he will quickly change his mind once he has learned of the brilliance you have displayed on this thread.

Of course by applying your type of logic here I guess all Europeans are the whiney know-it-all type.

[rogue]

Here's why you may need us in the future.

"The rest of the World has done well without the USA for a long time and will continue to do so, regardless if you Guys got your finger in the pie or not. "

Let's see if I remember my history correctly. Wasn't there something called the Marshall Plan ?

Here's a map of the few countries that benefited from that.

And as the Great American poet wrote...

"I'm so glad I'm living in the USA
Yes I'm so glad I'm living in the USA
Anything you want we got it right here in the USA"

Hit it Chuck!!!

Oh well oh well I feel so good today
We just touched ground on an international runway
Jet-propelled back home from overseas to the USA

New York, Los Angeles
Oh how I yearn for you
Detroit, Chicago, Chattanooga, Baton Rouge
God I long to be at my home back in old St Lou

Did I miss the skyscrapers
Did I miss the long freeway
From the coast of California
To the shores of the Delaware Bay
You can bet your life I did
Till I got back to the USA

Looking hard for a drive-in
Searching for a corner cafe
Where hamburgers sizzle on an open grill night and day
Yeah, and the jukebox jumping with records back in the USA

I'm so glad I'm living in the USA
Yes I'm so glad I'm living in the USA
Anything you want we got it right here in the USA

Ah we're so glad we're living in the USA
Yes we're so glad we're living in the USA
Anything you want we got it right here in the USA

Ah we're so glad
We're so glad
Ah we're so glad
We're so glad


Back in the U.S.A.

written by Chuck Berry
© Arc Music Corp (BMI)

[Serpent]

Shadow Dragon et al. You're wasting your time. It's like trying to teach a horse to say moo.

An English friend of mine told me a story once. He used to work in care for disabled kids, in the inner-city in the Midlands. One day there was a Harvest Festival celebration (which is a celebration of the treasures of the earth and people often donate food to the poor.)

So this guy had a basket of all sorts of fruit and vegetables and stuff in it. He had all the kids sitting round and was talking about nature and farming and so on. One kid pointed at the basket, to a potato, and said, "What's that?"

My friend picked up the potato and said, "This?"

The kid nodded.

So my friend held it up and said, "Who can tell me what this is?"

Every kid sat there silently, not knowing the answer.

"Well," my friend said, "it's a potato!"

Every kid there (about a dozen of them I think) all started hooting with laughter. Bemused, my friend calmed them down and said, "What's so funny?"

"That's not potato," answered one of the kids.

"It's not?"

"No," said the kid, his voice sounding like he thought my friend was an idiot. Then he explained. "Potato is white and kinda fluffy, like on a shepherd's pie!"

All the other kids were nodding, looking at my friend like he was a martian or something.

These kids weren't mentally disabled. They were physically disabled, from poor families. They'd never been outside the city and never got much education or information beyond the care home.

They weren't stupid, just drastically ill-informed. They had a paradigm, based on their own limited experience, and it never occurred to them that there was any more to it than that. After all, if there was more to know they'd know it. Right?

On the upside, my friend arranged a trip for them all to a farm and he says to this day that it's the best he's ever felt in his life, watching those kids seeing farming and animals and so on.

[SifuAbel]

Looking back at the photo, which was the initial spark of this arguement. I see a snow sculpture depicting the pain of a people , NOT a government. Would it be propaganda if there were no american flag in his hands. Whose flag should it be then?

Chokey got the questions answered but the point here is that this sculpture was created to deal with the pain of loss, not to rally any more support for this war. We are in it with both feet. And we are not coming out until we get ours. Its one thing to wage a military war against a country its quite another to wage it at the civilian level. Bottom line, they chucked us a sucker punch in the eye; we are not just going to sit back and get another one.

Frankly, all I've read here is anti-american penile envy. Regergitated words drawn from regergitated sources. I personally never stated we are the best at anything. Its you guys that are in need of some regcognition. You have to feel good about something, being that the general apathy in your own countries are so high. Enjoy your comfort while you have it. Go ahead, support the downtrodened terrorists. But don't come crying to us when your "friends" bomb the bullocks out of your local pub.

We are not allowed to mourn? F uck you
We are not allowed to seek justice? F uck you

[diego]

i mean we are all, reformed monkeys tossing around colored letterblocks!"

My bestfriend his pop i think is the firechief inspector for his division here in northvan canada, after 911 thier was the huge memorial for the NYEMS!. His boys and he went down thier for the service, and got to work a shift in the bronx for the night?.
Now the memorial was in a hockey stadium, possibly madison square"he told me this months ago", each division wich showed up from around the world was announced at the center of the Field. When my boys pops and his crew came up to say hi, thier name was stated, and the whole crowd acted like the hometeam scored a touchdown
in the monkey cage of our timeclock aint that some cool ****!!.

[scotty1]

"They have plenty of cheese for all of your whine."

Good line.

On the subject of spectator violence, I think it's weird that football (soccer) attracts violent arseholes by the coach-load, but rugby attracts very little. My rugby following friends say the atmosphere outside Twickenham between opposing rugby fans is good.

On the subject of the subject I can't be arsed to get involved.

Shadow, not getting at you, but your style of arguing is really getting beat by everyone elses'. Point to some facts dude, or you're really only generalising.

There ARE concrete reasons why some countries hate the US (insensitive foreign/trade policy for example) but I really couldn't argue the point because I don't have the facts.

And saying that doesn't make me anti-American, anti-Western or pro-terrorist, its just a fact. People don't hate for no reason.

I think a major problem is the globalisation process, which on the pretext of creating wealth for developing countries creates a poverty trap for certain peoples in developing countries.

It's not just America doing it, it's Britain as well, and a lot of Europe.

Like Merry says, taking either extreme, is, well, extremist, and isn't that what we're supposed to be fighting against?

Your country and mine have both done, and continue to do some rather ****ty things to people we will never meet and probably never even hear about. That is a given.

I do think that these things are being used as an excuse by certain groups to justify killing 4,000 civilians, which is simply not on. Sucker punch is right.

If anyone should be upset with the US and UK it should be the factory workers in Special Economic Zones in Asia and South America for our trade policies keeping them in poverty.

Although, we have had a lot of involvement in Palestine/Israel issues. So I suppose we have a responsibility to help them sort their problems...

BTW, with some Arabs moaning about US military bases in Saudi Arabia, why were they built, for what war or purpose? I assumed it was to help the Saudis with something.

[diego]

scotty1Special Economic Zones : Care to define, have not heard, YAHEARD

[wushu chik]

Well guys, for one, i think that this is totally sad. And for this reason. We have busted our asses, and lost a lot of family, friends, etc. to many of the wars which some of you say we weren't asked to fight in. I really think that you guys saying that you don't need the US or our help, should GO BACK and research your arguments before making them! You guys know who you are, i don't think i have to single you out any more than you already have been!

Again, Diego, thanks for the pics! i thought they were great!

~Wen~

[scotty1]

I thnk that they are an industrial area set aside for mass production of Western goods for export. Companies like Gap, Nike, Reebok, Fruit of the Loom, basically anything which has a label use these zones.

Western companies have figured out that it is cheaper to get goods produced abroad and shipped than it is to pay wages in a Western country. Plus, workers in a Western country have to have things like Unions, rights and a decent living wage.

Workers in a SEZ are paid extremly low wages, often below the minimum living wage. They are forced to do overtime, at the same rate as normal hours. Except overtime is not 1 or 2 hours, it's 10.

When there is a big order to get done workers are expected to work all the extra hours necessary to get it done, and when there are no orders workers are sent home and not paid.

There are no unions allowed, and opposition to the cramped and overheated working conditions is crushed, sometimes with violence, more usually just sacked. Obviously there are no industrial tribunals or unfair dismissal claims.

The Western company in question will tour the globe looking for the lowest costs offered, which means SEZ in different countries and different factories in the same country will have to compete for business, which means who can do the job whilst paying the lowest wages and providing the lowest standards of working conditions, ultimately.

Many workers are housed in accomodation above the factory or in blocks in the SEZ. You can guess how inviting these are, and they are usually firetraps. In fact, I don't know the figures, but there are a large number of deaths by these **** holes burning down every year, after the factories catch alight from poorly maintained equipment.

This is all driven by greed, and what I think we should all realize - for it applies to the whole America being bad issue - is that it takes two to tango. The Western company wants low costs, and is prepared to turn a blind eye to the conditions which materialize into huge profits. Of course, none of this could happen without the factory owners and business men who are prepared to exploit their fellow country men to make a few bucks.

One could not do what is being done without the support of the other.

Do a search for John Pilger on a search engine, and be prepared to read a bit. Some of what you will find may be far left BS but most things written by the man himself on this subject are worth reading.

It is business and government that people hate about the West.
And by extension, the people for not keeping their governments in check. But how realistic is that?

if you're looking for answers on why people in developing countries hate the West you could do a lot worse than look at John Pilger's website. Plus he has written a load of essays, more than one is probably on that subject.

Another name to look out for is Naomi Klein, author of No Logo.
Although some of her writing was a bit weak, I found.

Thank you.