Defense against WC?

**Sabu** · 05-25-2002, 08:40 AM

Why do you not like the term "trapping"? Or is it that you just don't like being or feeling trapped...?

**old jong** · 05-25-2002, 01:38 PM

I feel it gives a false idea of the real goal of Wing Chun witch is deflecting and hitting. Many beginners think that they have to somehow pin the hands of an opponent before a strike.This is hand chasing to me!...Also, many non-wing chun guys use that term when they talk about Wing Chun and how these "tricks" would never work against them!(They are right!)And last: We now even hear guys talk about how many "traps" they know instead of principles,lines of attack or defense,body structure and unity witch are the real subjects of Wing Chun.
I hope this answer your question.

**yuanfen** · 05-25-2002, 01:53 PM

I was told I was only allowed to step backwards once!!!

Any thoughts?

AndyM
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Something like- you only live twice?

**dbulmer** · 05-25-2002, 02:10 PM

I can understand why the sifu said what he did. Mine did and he's right! I was free sparring a much bigger and better WC man than me. I found that when I stepped back I found it very difficult to regain any momentum - I lost my balance, I was unable to recover and psychologically I basically gave up - not something I like to admit but there you go. The next time I sparred with him he was still over me but he did find it harder.

**AndyM** · 05-25-2002, 03:36 PM

Something like- you only live twice?

Yuanfen, if that was meant to be helpful it went completely over my head!

Do you agree or disagree?

Thanks very much!

AndyM

**yuanfen** · 05-25-2002, 06:06 PM

Andy M: Good query!
In reality you seldom say never. The key is how you use circumstances. While in wc you do not deliberately go backwards-
sometimes you dont have a choice -someone can give you an unexpected shove from the front. You can fall/step back into a stance and punch forward at the same time. You have regained your structure and attacked the center at the same time.On occasion you can live twice- a second chance- karma and reincarnation.
And chum kiu shows the way!

**Mr Punch** · 05-26-2002, 07:48 AM

Good point old jong, about trapping.

I have a slight conceptual problem that I'm working through with my wing chun: coming from an aiki background, I often think having a hand on my opponent's arm as a deflection is tantamount to having 'trapped' him. This doesn't lead me to chasing his hands, or to looking for the perfect pin before striking, but it does sometimes lead me to a false sense of security about how much control I have.

Of course, on the all-too infrequent occasions when I am keeping a really good structure, a good deflection on an arm which is often going back anyway, with good forward elbow energy, will lead to an 'accidental' pin. And, of course, if I'm really keeping to good wing chun principles, I've already hit him anyway!!

Joy, good point also. We were taught that one step back under pressure should be enough to regain your structure if you had lost it.

Thanks, both.

**hunt1** · 05-26-2002, 09:05 AM

Never more than 1 step back is a good beginners training tool.

It is assumed that if you have to step back you cannot handle your opponents forward energy.If you keep stepping straight back you allow his energy to build and your position gets worse.The more you step back in the face of strong energy the easier you lose your balance/structure and the harder it is to regain it.This is why you need to learn to shift,side step and angle step in all directions and of course absorb energy.

**dbulmer** · 05-26-2002, 10:21 AM

Just been practicing that today. It's hard but I am starting to find it pays off going forward. My own footwork is useless but I am working on it.

Actually, a question for everyone (I think a naive question too as I expect a certain answer but here goes anway).
If a BJJ rushes at you and you are in a basic stance, what steps would you take to avoid being taken to ground? I am interested in the footwork you'd need to practice.

Hunt1 - what do you mean by absorb energy?

**chessGMwannabe** · 05-26-2002, 10:50 AM

if your instructor tells you to not take more than one step back in training, he's at least doing something right. the idea is to teach you to deal with an excess of forward pressure in ways that allow you to continue your attack. if you continue to train like that, you'll become a dangerous person becuase when someone is attacking, they generally aren't prepared to defend, it takes a psychological shift. if you just step back, you limit your ability to attack, and it destroys your forward energy. defend by maintaining your potential for attack. if you limit how much you can retreat when training, you'll learn how to find otherways of dealing with an overpowering attack. that's why we were all kind of laughing at the idea of 'backing him up" backing anybody is a good general tactic, but I think it's hardest IMO to back up a good wing chun person. I wouldn't worry about being backed up too much, but do train with people that are strong enough to overpower you so that you can dissapate naturally.
regards,
kevin

**popsider** · 05-26-2002, 01:13 PM

Limiting the amount you can step back may just be a training tool, but in reality if it is OK to step back once then why not twice or three times if that is what the situation demands ? I'm not saying that you aim to fight on the run, but there are going to be times when you want to keep some distance between you and the opponent and stepping back is one way of doing that. I don't agree with yuanfen that you never deliberately step backwards - I do agree though that if you do you can still be attacking forwards as you do it.

**mortal** · 05-26-2002, 02:00 PM

I just started wing chun but the best defense against this style is a good kicking offense. I have been allowed to spar as soon as I started because of my experiance with shaolin. I found most of the guys I fought were great with their hands but had no defense for a fast kick to the head, chest, or stomach. I have always heard alot about high kicks don't get in, But they do and they work very well. Now when I spar I don't use my feet. That way I develop my hand techs. I'm not knocking WC. i love it!I like its sweeping techs. My Wing chun sifu says he could sweep anybody. Big claim but whats sick is, he really can and does allthe time.

**yuanfen** · 05-26-2002, 04:19 PM

I just started wing chun but the best defense against this style is a good kicking offense. I have been allowed to spar as soon as I started because of my experiance with shaolin.
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Hi mortal -you must not be "sparring" with very accomplished wing chun folks.

**NPMantis** · 05-26-2002, 04:19 PM

Hi everyone,

I am interested in learning a little more about WC, could anyone recommend me a site to learn a little more about the techniques involved preferably with some pictures or something?

Thanks a lot for any help!

Take care,

NPM

**yuanfen** · 05-26-2002, 04:22 PM

I don't agree with yuanfen that you never deliberately step backwards
---------------------------------
No problem with having different opinions. Careful. IMO a good wc person can walk someone into a wall or whatever is behind
if someone starts stepping back. It all has to with timing and structure.

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