Why condition?

[scotty1]

I always thought WC was about redirecting energy and not taking a shot head on, weaker defeating stronger etc. but then on the 'Do you condition your forearms?' thread everyone was talking about how it is essential to do so so you can block shots without any pain.

Eh? Blocking shots? I thought you weren't supposed to use any force in your defense? How would a woman defend against a man if she was defending using her forearms?

I'm confused, please help.

[Sec]

As far as bashing my arms legs and body, this is something that I will never do. Running, sparing etc are fine but just banging my body isnt going to make me better.

[Ish]

you can use better structure to defeat a stronger opponent but this can still hurt your arms

[scotty1]

Basically, I thought WC was all about evasion and redirection/parrying. Obviously a lot of people are taking a lot of energy head on if you need to have conditioned forearms.

[dezhen2001]

i would have thought that through doing a lot of chi sau and developing your structure through SLT etc. that your arms would become stronger anyway...

what do i know eh

david

[red5angel]

Scotty1 - If you are talking about conditioning body parts to make them tougher, then it shouldnt be a big part of wing chun. As you pointed out we should be deflecting not blocking, but sometimes even deflection can fail or turn into blocking, and sometimes you have no choice. Ever hit your funny bone, or you shin hard ? your brain sort of locks onto the pain to the exclusion of everything else. If you can condition those out then you dont have to worry about it. Most of the conditioning is in the training. To me it is just a preparedness thing.

[sticky fingers]

If you are the perfect WC fighter , conditioning would be superfluous. But until you reach that god-like level of skill a degree of conditoning will be necessary (which means all of us). Stepping into a good Muay Thai round kick, for example, still hurts like buggery even though you have avoided its maximum force.

[Sabu]

Wing Chun is not trained in order to fight the Muay Thai fighter.
(Well, at least I don't think so.)

[kungfu cowboy]

Is wing chun not to be used against any style?

[sticky fingers]

So how are we supposed to deal with Muay Thai?
sit down and cry??

[yuanfen]

So how are we supposed to deal with Muay Thai?
sit down and cry??
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No. Simple- 1. Dont play their game.Dont be intimidated.
(if you dont think that wing chun is an effective sytem for you-run now)
2. Do wing chun timing and footwork.
3. With proper timing ATTACK...wing chun has many more weapons.
4Then send in the clowns and the elephants and maybe the pop corn.

[Miles Teg]

To someone who has developed their structure and has conditoned their forearms, not much will get in their way.

No it is not neccessary to clash with a person.

I know from experience not everything can be redirected. I came from a place where they thought everything could be redirected or dissipated, and now I think I was living in a hippie fantasy world.
When someone is using cutting angles to punch through your structure, you get a jolt of pain through your body, it can literally make your eyes water and put you in escape mode.

Ive heard TST's arms are as hard as anything and painful if you are on the wrong side of them and he is of slight build and in his seventies.
As far as the women arguement goes, perhaps someone could tell us whether Suzanna Ho has conditioned forearms, she is a TST qualified instructor. I would be interested to know myself.

[gnugear]

Originally posted by sticky fingers
So how are we supposed to deal with Muay Thai?
sit down and cry??

I sparred with a kickboxer for the first time last week. They keep their hands and forearms up high, so I was able to completely tie him up and disrupt his boxing plan. He wasn't able to hit at all.

Kicks were a different story though. As soon as I would jam him up, he would do this funny straight kick where he would lean his body back. It basically created distance so he could get back into his comfortable kicking range. I ended up chasing him for a half hour LOL!

Hard to tell how it would all pan out though ... we weren't using pads as he's used to, so he didn't kick as he normally would. Likewise, I wasn't hitting as hard as I could have. In a real situation he said he would attack my thigh area constantly to wear my leg down or give me a charlie horse. They do a LOT of leg conditioning so he can take much more abuse than I can.

I'm curious if I could leg check his kicks and attack his supporting leg with success. Might have to try a little more aggressive sparring next time.

[gnugear]

BTW, good structure is a must. I didn't have to use muscle at all.

I just got winded from chasing him!

[dbulmer]

A blow to the thigh hurts alright. Happened to me last week with a sparring partner. I asked my teacher about Scotty1's question.
His reply was a frown and basically, conditioning of reflexes Yes hardening of arms No. Basically, matching force against force isn't going to work against a bigger opponent. His view was identical to yuanfan.