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Thread: Iron Kim rides again!!!!!! hahahahaha

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
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    International
    Posts
    56

    Iron Kim rides again!!!!!! hahahahaha

    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahah ah


    http://www.chungmoodoe-il.com/stretch.jpg

    http://www.chungmoodoe-il.com/csndoe.jpg

    http://www.8ma-health.com/NIK_Colorado_Palgae.jpg

    http://www.8martialartsforhealth.com/chongbong.jpg




    Chung Moo Doe
    Leader:
    John C. Kim, aka Chong Su Nim "Iron" Kim

    Alternate Names:
    Chung Moo Quan
    Oom Yung Doe
    8 Martial Arts for Health

    The following information has been provided by former members of Chung Moo Doe:
    Description of the Group:
    This is a personality cult using a chain of martial arts schools as its "front". People, particularly men, are lured into the group thinking it's a martial arts school, and they're going to learn about self defense, getting in shape, etc. Instead, they're subjected to mind control techniques to essentially get them to worship Chung Moo's founder, John C. Kim. Exhorbitant lesson fees are charged, providing Kim and his people with large amounts of money. In 1996, Kim and several of his top people were convicted of conspiracy to defraud the United States of America.

    Behaviors:
    Students of Chung Moo were pressured to move in together, and keep the "respect line" (the way we treated one another in school) the same on the outside as well as inside the school. People critical of Chung Moo, including parents, were to be shunned and kept in the dark about what really went on. Students, and particularly instructors from what I could see, were strongly urged to wear their hair and dress as John C. Kim did. Also, there was a general disapproval of dressing well among the students, as that meant you had money for clothes that could have gone towards John C. Kim.

    Dietary restrictions weren't a big thing in my experience with the group, though eating hot soup and hot Korean food was encouraged during times of sickness, rather than consulting a physician.

    Sleep was highly regulated in Chung Moo. On more than one occasion instructors urged students to sleep only a few hours a night, and boasted how little sleep they themselves needed. It was said that the Chung Moo forms (martial arts movements) could replace the human body's need for sleep.

    Finances and money were a huge focus of Chung Moo; it's almost impossible to overstate the importance of money in the organization. Quite simply, past a certain point, you were expected to hand over all your extra money for Chung Moo lessons and teachings. Cash only, and it was disrespectful to ask for receipts, or copies of membership contracts.

    Students were encouraged to spend all their free time either at the school or in the company of other Chung Moo members. Association with people not in the group was discouraged. Multiple jobs were often encouraged to help students pay the lesson fees, limiting their time even more.

    Chung Moo required lots of an individual's time, not only with regular lessons, but special private lessons, belt courses, etc. These were strenuous workouts followed by indoctrination sessions. Once, I recall we had to hold extremely strenuous body positions, zoning ourselves out to block out the pain, and the instructors turned out the lights and had us all count out loud in a droning, monotone voice, putting us into an altered state of consciousness.

    It was unthought of for people to act on their own without consulting instructors. College was a decision that was frowned upon.

    People definitely had to report what they were thinking and doing, and the activities of others, to the instructors. In one instance, I was forced to admit in front of fellow students that I was a virgin. Instructors constantly badgered people with questions about their personal lives, finances, etc., and it was easily obvious that choosing not to answer would result in ostracization or ejection from the group, or, if you were a longtime member, verbal harassment and even physical assaults.

    You were praised and rewarded for bringing down more money to the school and for appearing to try hard. If the instructors perceived you weren't trying hard, or weren't bringing in enough money, you were subjected to humiliation and beatings.

    People were not at all encouraged to think as individuals. School always had to come first. Whenever an individual thought was expressed, "watch what you say" was the common response. Any semblance of "talking back" to instructors was met with harshly.

    Chung Moo had extremely rigid rules of conduct; when to bow, how to bow, how to act, how to speak, what to do. The rules and rituals overshadowed everything you did in a Chung Moo school, and often what you did outside.

    Students were expected to be totally subservient to John C. Kim, even if they never actually met him (like myself--I never met Kim). We were supposed to bow to his picture, bring down more money for the school on Kim's birthday (said to be April 1st), and pay towards lessons to show respect to Kim. We were trained to be dependent upon the group, often indoctrinated that Chung Moo was the highest expression of what it could be to be a person in this life.

    Information:
    It was said Kim was the "champion of all Asia", when no such title has ever existed. Claims were made about what Chung Moo could do (cure disease,etc.) that have never been backed up. Prices for the lessons weren't openly advertised. Forms and movements were held "secret", only to be seen by those who'd paid the high lesson prices.

    We were certainly kept quite busy, so we really didn't have time to think. With keeping members from anti-cult information, it really didn't come out about what Chung Moo really was until a couple of years after I'd left, so that really doesn't apply. However, we definitely were encouraged to look down on those who'd left the group.

    Information was strictly controlled in the organization. Claims about Kim's near-supernatural abilities were never disclosed up front, only after a period of indoctrination. Instructors strictly controlled which students knew what about the organization and what it truly required. Students knew the least, instructors knew more, head instructors knew even more, and regional instructors knew more still. There was a near-worship for people above you, with the ultimate worship reserved for Kim.

    Spying was encouraged. I was involved a few times in bringing to instructors' attention the fact that other students were deviating from Chung Moo principles. The doctrine, not personal relationships, mattered most.

    Instructors encouraged certain students to "pal around" with certain others. The "blue literature", the standard Chung Moo pamphlet, was held nearly as important as a Bible to a Christian.

    People definitely suffered after having confessed things to instructors. When an instructor asked something, you had no choice whether to refuse. Information said in private could be made public any time, and was. I was present when several students were embarrassed this way.
    "Right or wrong does not come from your personal judgement. Your personal judgement always favors you. Favoring yourself is not the right answer, the right road. Favoring the other side is not the right answer either. Right and wrong were their before you were born. Personal beliefs of right and wrong bring with them the confusion of your own thoughts. This is the worst way to make a mistake. "

    -Grandmaster Iron Kim

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    International
    Posts
    56
    Thought:
    An us-vs.-them mentality was indeed prevalent at Chung Moo. The outsiders were the "goofy ones", where we really knew what was going on. You were either in Chung Moo or out of it, no in-between. People's relevancy was judged based on whether or not they had "Chung Moo".

    Loaded language was perhaps the most startling aspect of Chung Moo to those not part of the group. Very strict speech patterns dominated, such as "Be all right to ask yourself?" when asking a question to an instructor, "more faster ways", when wanting something done quickly, "more goofy ways" to describe a person's actions, etc.

    No independent thoughts were encouraged, only thoughts towards Chung Moo and how you could better your life in it, mainly by bringing down more money.

    Thought-stopping techniques such as meditation and deep breathing were used, also the Chung Moo-famous position-holding, where you held several positions, sometimes for minutes at a time. It hurt so much you zoned out, causing a halt of all critical thinking.

    Critical opinions about John C. Kim were not only seen as illegitimate, but they could result in your being beaten if you voiced them.

    Chung Moo had all the answers to life's questions. Nothing -- not religion, not family -- could take the place of having your life right in Chung Moo.

    Emotional:
    The rigidity present in the organization allowed for very little emotional expression. Even after an instructor hit you and you were in pain, you had to "suck it up" and not show emotion.

    Students were always at fault for what they did. A few times, I was beaten and badly hurt by instructors, who always justified their actions by saying to me that I wasn't trying hard enough, which is why they hurt me. They never admitted any mistakes.

    Guilt was widely used in Chung Moo, particularly when comparing what we'd been through in our lives to supposedly what John C. Kim had been through in his. (There were claims Kim had lived in the mountains for seven years, living with animals, etc.)

    The only thing that rivalled the importance of money in Chung Moo was the use of fear. You were in a state of low-grade terror nearly every moment you were in a school, thinking about whether this was the night an instructor would single you out to be hurt. This released adrenaline constantly into the blood, which produced something like a low-level stress disorder, further inhibiting your critical thinking.

    Emotional highs and lows were very prevalent. Of course, outward display had to be controlled, but inwardly, when the instructors got down on you, you felt terrible, but to receive praise was like receiving a blessing directly from God.

    Students, including myself, were regularly forced to confess "sins" to the instructors and the rest of the class.

    Chung Moo indoctrinated people into thinking their minds and bodies would essentially turn to mush if they ever left Chung Moo. We'd be lost in the forest with no guide.

    Statement from former member (posted 3-7-00)



    Front Organizations:
    National Association of Martial Arts Educators (NAMAE)

    "Traditional Asian Health Methods" seminars

    Other Sources of Information:
    "Chung Moo Quan: The Cult & The Con."
    Reported by Pam Zekman. WBBM-TV, Chicago. 1989.

    Kahn, Ric. "Chung Moonies? Critics Call Martial Arts Club a Cult of Violence and Greed." Boston Phoenix, Oct. 25, 1991.

    Vogel, Jennifer. "Be True to Your School: The Dark Side of the Moo." City Pages (Minn/St. Paul), Apr. 1, 1992.

    Martial Arts and Cults
    "Philosophy" page at Matt Thornton's "Straight Blast Gym" web site


    Links Related to Chung Moo Doe:
    Chung Moo Members Indicted


    Web Sites of Chung Moo Doe:
    Arlington, MA School of Oom Yung Doe / 8 Martial Arts for Health

    Bagwa Chung

    Chung Moo Doe On the Web

    The United Martial Arts Center

    Kum Gung Quan

    Pittsburgh Centers for Martial Arts and Wellness

    School of Oom Yung Doe

    Martial Arts Defends Against Back Pain

    Eight Martial Arts for Health


    Articles Related to Chung Moo Doe:
    Cult Formation and Stability

    "Martial Arts and Medicine," Chung Moo Doe Newsletter, Winter 1998

    "Chung Moo Doe: Bagwa Chung," Chung Moo Doe Web Page, 3/17/98

    "All About Chung Moo Doe," Chung Moo Doe Web Page, 3/17/98

    "The Continueing Controversy Surrounding Chung Moo," 2/8/98

    "Chung Moo Doe or Quan," 12/30/97

    "Cultist Mea Culpa The Real Truth Real Tai Chi Training: Are You Getting Your Money's Worth," POWERLinesChicago Magazine, Nov 1997

    "Man Sentenced in Tax Fraud Scheme Involving Martial Arts Schools," The Naperville Sun, 8/31/97

    "The Cult in the Quan, The Fall of a Martial Arts Magnate Parts I-II-III," Martial Arts Pro, May 1997

    "Martial Arts School Chief Found Guilty In Tax Scam," Chicago Tribune, 12/10/96

    "Martial Art Expert Tried To Kick Taxes," Chicago Tribune, 9/10/96

    "Chung Moo Doe is Chung Moo Quan, Kim's Arrest Report," 12/26/95

    "Chung Moo Doe is Chung Moo Quan, John C. Kim Alias Jack Park," 12/26/95

    "Martial Art School Faces Tax Fraud Charges," Cult Awareness Network News, May 1995

    "Interview, Pam Zekman," Chicago Life, July/August 1992

    "Fourth Amend Complaint agnst John C. Kim," Ill Att Gen, 6/5/92

    "Be True To Your School," City PagesTwin Cities, MN, 4/1/92

    "Advertisement - A Way To Find Happiness," Daily Herald, 3/24/92

    "Chung Moo - Advertisement," Naperville Sun , 3/20/92

    "Police Probe Possible Martial Arts School Link to Man's Death," Cult Awareness Network News, 12/91

    "Advertisement - Thank You Chung Moo Quan," Misc. Yellow Page Ads Dallas, Houston,Tampa, 10/28/91

    "Chung Moonies? Critics call Martial-Arts Club A Cult Of Violence and Greed," The Boston Phoenix , 10/25/91

    "Officials Probe Death," 10/25/91

    "Murder Probe Hits Martial Arts School," Chicago Daily Herald, 10/12/91

    "Martial Arts School Link to Body Found in Forest Probed," Chicago Tribune, 10/12/91

    "Police Seek Link Between Death, Martial Arts School," Arlington Heights Daily Herald, 10/12/91

    "Authorities Identify Body Found Last Week in Woods," Arlington Heights Daily Herald, 10/11/91

    "Martial Arts School's Top Brass Charged With Tax Fraud," Arlington Heights (Chi) Daily Herald, 4/13/91

    "Police Aid Feds in Karate School Probe," Naperville Sun, 9/7/90

    "Ad Raises Woman's Ire Over Martial Arts School," The Lisle Sun, 1/18/90

    "Cult Charges," The Lisle Sun, 1/9/90

    "Attorney General's Lawsuit Targets Martial Arts Business," Daily Herald, 11/9/89

    "Group to Monitor Karate Schools, Ex-members Speak," Daily Herald, 12/10/89

    "CBS News Transcripts of Video," Nov. 2-7, 89

    "CBS News Transcripts of Video," Nov. 2-7, 89

    "Sign on the Dotted Line," Inside Karate, June 1988
    "Right or wrong does not come from your personal judgement. Your personal judgement always favors you. Favoring yourself is not the right answer, the right road. Favoring the other side is not the right answer either. Right and wrong were their before you were born. Personal beliefs of right and wrong bring with them the confusion of your own thoughts. This is the worst way to make a mistake. "

    -Grandmaster Iron Kim

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    San Antonio, TX
    Posts
    3,189
    Thanks KC?
    Your intelligence is surpassed only by your ignorance.

    You are more likely to fall down the stairs and break your neck if you live in a house with stairs. You are more likely to be in a car accident if you drive to work. You are more likely to be kicked in the nuts or punched in the nose if you practicing the martial arts. - Judge Pen

  4. #4
    This looks like a job for Spiderman!!!!!




    ..................... sorry. Recently saw the movie.

    Ryu
    "No judo! NO NO!"




    "One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

    Attain your highest ability, and continue past it. Emotion becomes movement. Express that which makes you; which guides you. Movement and Mind without hesitation. Physical spirituality...
    This is Jeet Kune Do....

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    North Hollywood, Cali
    Posts
    665
    Ride 'em cowboy.....
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Copyright 2003 - African Tiger Inc., a Nevada yada yada yada. Any reproduction...oh, to hell with that round kick, my knees are killing me. How about a nice Iron Palm to the nuts, sonny?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    3,959
    one of those links made my d@mn PC freeze Still funny though

    Hey IronKim - any relation to Ashida Kim?

    david
    Peace is not the product of terror or fear.
    Peace is not the silence of cemeteries.
    Peace is not the silent result of violent repression.
    Peace is the generous, tranquil contribution of all to the good of all.
    Peace is dynamism. Peace is generosity.
    It is right and it is duty.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Representing The Summit Set, Co, USA
    Posts
    478
    I can't believe that Chung Moo Doe crap. What a crock of sh!t.
    I am nothing.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Kansas City, KS
    Posts
    6,515
    eWallace,
    Not me.
    I would use a blue eyed, blond haired Chechnyan to ruin you- Drake on weapons

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Orange County, CA
    Posts
    608

    Thumbs up Very important message

    I would say there are many of this kind of fraudies out there(make me think of Shyun's orginization of 8 step). I think you should put this message every where so that people can judge and see for themselves and realized what are they involved in with. There are too many these criminals out there that has suck the potential martial artists' blood dry.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    You are standing in my space.
    Posts
    1,558
    What's the story with Shyun?

    In any case, it'll be hard to top John C Kim for outright BS. They have been a joke for decades where I come from.

    Hey Paul, are you living in LA now?

    Send me an e-mail at Visajoe@hotmail.com. I think the last time I saw you was in the stands at the Altanta Olympics Judo competition when your dad spotted me going up the stairs.
    "Never interrupt your enemy when they are making a mistake."
    --- Napoleon

    "MonkeySlap is a brutal b@stard." -- SevenStar
    "Forgive them Lord, they know not what MS2 can do." -- MasterKiller
    "You're not gonna win a debate (or a fight) with MST. Resistance is futile." - Seven Star

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    St. Louis MO
    Posts
    188
    Hey, I went to this site: http://www.chungmoodoe-il.com ,and checked out the founder link. Secret Oral tradition. And billions of practitioners..spending his time in the mountains with the animals. Oh, and the Chinese champion award.

    oh, i found this under origin and history


    "Today throughout the world billions of individuals practice Moo Doe for the tremendous benefits in their daily lives, enhancing health, communication, family and business relationships, friendships and much more. "
    are these guys for real? WTF.

    Gabriel
    Forge Virtue and Honor in the hot fire of Hard Work

    Expectation is the worst emotional disturbance - Yang Jwing Ming

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2002
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    isle of man
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    l ron hubbard-the martial arts years
    scary

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    D/FW, Texas.
    Posts
    2,697
    First pic caption:

    And we do the hokey pokey and we turn ourself around. Thats what it's all about.

    Second:
    Just a little closer and I'll have that bug dead.

    Third:
    Hot women coming close, better strike a fearsome pose!

    Fourth:
    Tag, your it!
    I have a signature.

  14. #14

    Chung Moo Quan and Chung Moo Doe cults

    This organization had already been closed down once in IL. Now they are making their way back. The arrests and school closures followed a special report by reporter Pam Zachman on CBS. Zachman had studied this cult and had her own investigating reporters in the schools collecting interviews and information for a couple of years before airing a week long special, shown twice a day. John C. Kim was arrested in CA while his students (one of which happened to be my friend at the time) were told that he's in Korea meditating, practicing and running schools the size of KMART. He was told to have been a Champion of All Asia winning matches which were to the death. He was also described as having the power to float threw air, take form of any animal and move like any animal, and manipulate his energy. I have met with some Chumg Moo Quan guys. Trust me, they're brainwashed as hell. All believe Chung Moo Quan will provide them with fountain of youth, health, and amazing self defense power. All I met refused to spar (claiming that "fighting is not fun and we are afraid to hurt you"). All I met talked bad about every other style of martial art. And, all I met refused to even look at techniques from other systems. Once a friend of mine got humiliated and scolded when I came to pick him up from my Kung Fu school. He was told that hanging out with me was a bad influence and desrespectfull to his CMD instructors. As a matter of fact, you wouldn't even be allowed to look at a Chung Moo Quan class unless you sign a release form to get you through the gate (at least that is how it was in 1989 right before the special reports and warning aired). I think as a martial arts community, we should warn and protect inocent victims of such cults. Keep in mind, people turned over their life savings, were broken away from homes, and had their familie's shattered by these individuals.
    MA fanatic

  15. #15

    Keep these threads going

    I think we should keep these threads going. New generations of martial artists are growing up and they have no idea of the dangeres martial arts can pose. I love martial arts and have been an active practitioner for 17 years now. These types of people scare me because they pray on vulnerable people installing a false sense of security, stealing their money, spreading flad out lies, and possibly shattering their relationships with their families.
    MA fanatic

    PS As bad as these articles about CMQ CMD sound, the stories I heard about what went on in those schools are worse. Like I said, that was in 1989, but judging by their web sites, seems like nothing has changed.

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