Iron Kim rides again!!!!!! hahahahaha

[MA fanatic]

I'd be very interested in any information on names of CMQ members indicted. Would also be interested in any more information on where I can obtain articles writen about CMQ exposing the organization.
MA fanatic
IronKim: Thanks for starting this thread. I'd do it on other martial arts forums as well. Every martial artist or anyone interested in martial arts should see this.

[GAZ]

I would like to know is this sort of thing only in the USA or do you get it in the UK aswell?

[internal mind]

GAZ

Exploitive cults are everywhere and as old as prostitution. China's history is riddled with them. For some reason Korea has exported more than its's share of cult figures to the US. If there is money and sex to be had you will find cult leaders. Oh yeah, you should hear the details about how Kim had sex with a lot of the wives of his instructors under the explaination that he was fixing their body problems. This guy has left a lot of damage in his wake. Now, ever since he got ***** slapped by the US government, they are going to great lengths to try to look legit and keep him out of future legal harms way.

[Turiyan]

"50 steps laughs at 100 steps"

[MA fanatic]

I have spoken to some of these guys. They wont even listen to reason. Most would just say you're jealous of their skill. A friend of mine who belonged to the cult told me, "my regional head instructor said that everyone outside chung moo quan are the walking dead." How does one deal with that reasoning?
MA fanatic

[KC Elbows]

MA,
As a member of the "walking dead"(former 1st degree in cmq), I can tell you I've never felt more alive.

A few of us former members have spoken about this, and we're under the impression that Kim taught a core group his real stuff, which doesn't seem to have been that special, and everything else taught since has just been one fake form after another, with a few misunderstood pieces of kung fu thrown in for good measure.

Turiyan, exactly what did you mean by that? Is that something they quoted on their website?

[Nick Monticello]

Some where I have the court file with the convictions, but I can't find it right now.

All the ones listed in THIS court document did time though.

I can't fit the whole thing on here, so i posted it on RD's forum at

http://pub4.bravenet.com/forum/fetch...rnum=281840285

[NorthernMantis]

No one listen to that Turyian character as he is a 1st class troll!

[Brad]

I don't know what he's talking about anyway

[Black Jack]

These guys used to be in my neck of the woods, IL, for years, they are as stated, a dangerous cult, not dangerous as in bad ass, far from it, dangerous to those unaware of what they really are.

IMHO they should all be shut down as fast as possible.

[MA fanatic]

Yes, these schools still exist. Actually, on some of their sites, the members who were mentioned in the posted article (the ones who were convicted) are depicted in photographs conducting recent seminars. So, yes, they are not in prison now. John C. Kim is still revered as a supreme being. The problem here is, no one will ever tip their students. Why? Because these people are crazy enough to come after you, hurt you, and hurt your family. In the early 80s, Chung Moo Quan students were asked to attack and injure students of local martial arts schools. I'd be carefull with these people.
MA fanatic

[MA fanatic]

KC:
I am well familiar with the school, its teachings, forms (Ship Pal Gey, Tung nun, katas, bagwa sparring, long daze, short daze, etc. etc. etc.), and self defense techniques. I have also done extensive research into the history of CMQ. Let me assure you, the style never existed. John C. Kim must have had some core training. The techniques he taught were identical to those taught in various internal and external kung fu systems, Kong Su (Korean system), and some Hapkido. Otherwise it was a mishmash of techniques brought in by instructors who, after researching, I found out had extensive history in other martial arts. John C. Kim, though perhaps a decent martial artist in his youth, was no better than any martial arts instructor. The competitions in Asia never existed. There were however logal tournaments in various provinces in China which were called, "Tournament for Champion of All Asia." The rest of the information about people he fought and techniques he used to kill people in these death matches were pure fairy tales. He also never possessed the wei-gone-boe, nei-gone-bope, and qwei gong-sulbope (I apologize for the spelling), skills they told students he possessed. It was one huge scam. As for his fighting skills, I can see the guy being good. I can see the guy having some skill. But, that makes him no different or more skilled than any Kung Fu master instructor on this forum. I suspect the higher the instructors were in the highierarchy, the less they new of martial arts, and the more they served as bussiness co conspirators. Some local instructors were terrible martial artists (but good sales people). Others were good fighters, but would on occasion mention that they had over 10 years experience in Kung Fu, Kempo, Kenpo, and even Kyokushinkai Karate (such as one instructor in Elk Grove Village IL.).
MA fanatic

[KC Elbows]

MA,
You're preaching to the choir with me. I'm originally from the chicago area, that's where I went to their schools.

However, initially, the school taught kong su, that's it. There's even a very old brochure, not part of the blue literature, predating that cr@p, but it was titled kong su, and it explained the schools system. I'm pretty sure that was Kim's area of expertise, but, judging by his students, he was no paragon. In any case, all of the later stuff(from the eighties on) was a mish mosh of useless or misunderstood movement.

Remember Tom MaGee? Most of the time I was in the moo, he was my instructor. From what I've heard, he had quite a bit of previous martial experience, and he was the one fighter in the higher ranks that I saw while in the moo.

Turiyan,
The reason I asked for clarification was that the referrence you made was not very clear. Who were you applying it to? CMQ? Us? Or was it a quote you found in one of their web sites? If you meant to apply it to us commenting on CMQ, I'm wondering what familiarity you have with CMQ, as I, to my knowledge, have the most experience with them of those on the forum, and have had substancial contact with a number of former higher belts who were able to confirm that the silliness that took place up to first degree black belt continued well up into fifth degree. Imagine, fifth degrees who do not have sparring/fighting experience.

BTW, the nomad cultures had reached the appex of their expansion. To maintain it, they had to adopt the manners of a culture like China, although, for that matter, the nomads also adopted many persian traits. How come your sig doesn't equally blast the traits of the persians that contributed to the nomad's "fall"? Just curious.

[MA fanatic]

KC Elbows,
I apologize if I sounded preachy. My post was meant more for those unfamiliar with the organizations. Yes, I do remember Tom (I think he later became a regional instructor). He was actually pretty fast and powerful. And yes, his movements were light years ahead of most other instructors. There were other CMQ instructors (such as instructor Bill in the Elk Grove area) who had over 10 years of Karate, Kung Fu, boxing, and kempo experience. I do believe that John C. Kim may have had some skill. At least, he could throw a side kick (I have seen many pictures of him doing that). Some forms resembled some of the Kung Fu forms I later saw in Kung Fu. The Kong Su katas were a mish mash of blocks and puches.

Just for curiousity, what ever happened to the old CMQ instructors (are they still around? are those new guys running local CMQ schools?)? What ever happened to John C. Kim? How can these people legaly continue to get away with such practices.

I had an opportunity to meet one of the instructors of CMQ in graduate school. He remembered me. We talked and he confirmed all the stories of sleep deprevation, living together, group think, and isolation from families. I truly feel sorry for anyone still involved in that organization.
MA fanatic

[KC Elbows]

Tom Magee, among others, helped take the fall for Kim in the tax case, though kim still served time. Magee did something like 5 years, got out, and swore off cmq, from my understanding.

I also was informed that kim blamed it all on some of the other higher belts who took the fall for him in the tax case. Before they got out of the penn, he allegedly had higher belts show students tapes of them doing form poorly. The tapes were purportedly the end of long marathon workout sessions, but were used to discredit the instructors, basically then telling the students that everything they had learned was wrong.

RD might actually have copies of those tapes. I haven't seen them, but it would, IMO, be typical of the organization that I knew.