Ng Yim Ming - famous Tibetan Hop Gar leader and Chinese Army General

[ljeung]

well, good luck with this...I'll help if I can.

Zvika

"There is a fine line between coincidence and destiny"

Yes, good luck, diego. I will help if I can, too.

Lawrence

[ljeung]

seeking info.....

Hi diego,

My grandmother told me that my grandfather's highest rank in the Chinese Army was colonel.

Lawrence

[jdhowland]

Lawrence, welcome to the forum and thank you for the info about your grandfather.

I practice his version of Hop Ga as taught by his student and business partner, Tse Cheuk Tong. Tse sifu knew your grandfather from his Hong Kong days and still owns two swords that belonged to Ng sigung (I was priveleged to be permitted to hold one and help repair the green snakeskin hilt wrapping. I know it's silly, but I felt as if I could feel a little of the old man's personality in the sword).

When your grandfather was killed, my sifu was teaching in Hawaii so he avoided most of the violent repercussions. I never knew the name of the kid who did the shooting, but of course he was only obeying someone else's orders. That mentality is not completely gone from the SF region as witness the Leung shooting a few years ago, but I hear it's a little safer. I lived two blocks from the Golden Dragon during the infamous shooting in the 70s. Chinatown gung fu students were wary of even going out for noodles after classes. We always made a point of covering up our "colors" or uniforms in order to avoid being mistaken for gang members.

Your grandfather's death was a tragedy for America's gung fu heritage. But he has a legacy and you have an extended family.

Sincerely,

John Howland

[ljeung]

Lawrence, welcome to the forum and thank you for the info about your grandfather.

I practice his version of Hop Ga as taught by his student and business partner, Tse Cheuk Tong. Tse sifu knew your grandfather from his Hong Kong days and still owns two swords that belonged to Ng sigung (I was priveleged to be permitted to hold one and help repair the green snakeskin hilt wrapping. I know it's silly, but I felt as if I could feel a little of the old man's personality in the sword).

When your grandfather was killed, my sifu was teaching in Hawaii so he avoided most of the violent repercussions. I never knew the name of the kid who did the shooting, but of course he was only obeying someone else's orders. That mentality is not completely gone from the SF region as witness the Leung shooting a few years ago, but I hear it's a little safer. I lived two blocks from the Golden Dragon during the infamous shooting in the 70s. Chinatown gung fu students were wary of even going out for noodles after classes. We always made a point of covering up our "colors" or uniforms in order to avoid being mistaken for gang members.

Your grandfather's death was a tragedy for America's gung fu heritage. But he has a legacy and you have an extended family.

Sincerely,

John Howland

Hi John,

Thank you for welcoming me. I really appreciate it. And you're welcome about the info about my grandfather.

I have never heard of Tse sifu. He is another person about which I will ask my parents.

Nevertheless, your sifu was very fortunate to have avoided the violent repercussions.

Two of my maternal cousins told me the nickname of the the kid who did the shooting. My mother told me that he shot my grandfather, because my grandfather was having a relationship with his mother - as I mentioned in an earlier post, my grandfather was not very faithful to my grandmother. To verify all this, I asked the San Francisco Police Department about twenty years ago for a copy of the file on my grandfather's murder case, but it said the case was still unsolved, so it could not release the file. I will try asking again, as I now have friends and one cousin who are law enforcement officers in both the police department and sheriff's department.

As for the Leung shooting, you must be talking about the shooting of Allen Leung. It is unfortunate that the mentality that you mention is not completely gone from SF, but yes, it is a little safer, as the frequency of shootings have decreased noticeably.

When the Golden Dragon shooting occurred, my family and I had already moved out of San Francisco to the suburbs, so I never had to worry about gangs, although I did detest them.

Indeed, my grandfather has a legacy, two legacies in fact: Hop Gar and the Ng side of my extended family.

Lawrence

[htowndragon]

Hi, I am Jason Liao, student of David Chin, and therefore grand-student of your grandfather Harry Ng.

1. Did any of your family members practice your grandfathers Hop Gar?

2. Interesting you bring up the terms of his death, I was told that it was a "hit". The man who shot si gung has since then been released from prison.

[once ronin]

What's the story Lawr?

Jason is saying the shooter is already out of prison for the shooting and you are saying the police told you it is still a unsolved murder.

Someone put 5 or 6 tongs together money wise to sponsor the hit. The dollar amount was about someone's weight.

Tell us something from the inside. If not please dont misuse Harry Ng's name.

Relative or not.

[ljeung]

Hi, I am Jason Liao, student of David Chin, and therefore grand-student of your grandfather Harry Ng.

1. Did any of your family members practice your grandfathers Hop Gar?

2. Interesting you bring up the terms of his death, I was told that it was a "hit". The man who shot si gung has since then been released from prison.

Hi Jason,

Yes, some of my family members, including my mother, did practice Hop Gar, but all but maybe one stopped after my grandfather died. They were just too distraught and traumatized.

My grandfather's death may well have been a hit. I am sure the man or men who ordered the hit had to find someone who was not only financially and socially hungry enough to follow the order, but also someone who was emotionally hungry. My family told me the man who shot my grandfather was just a child. If he has since been released from prison, I sincerely hope that he has been rehabilitated, has stayed far away from the gangs, has become well educated, and has lived an upstanding life of a family man, teaching his children to be good, honest, decent, charitable, loving human beings. If he has fallen again, then I will be saddened, for while the loss of one life is a tragedy, the loss of two is worse.

Lawrence

[ljeung]

What's the story Lawr?

Jason is saying the shooter is already out of prison for the shooting and you are saying the police told you it is still a unsolved murder.

Someone put 5 or 6 tongs together money wise to sponsor the hit. The dollar amount was about someone's weight.

Tell us something from the inside. If not please dont misuse Harry Ng's name.

Relative or not.

Hi once ronin,

The story is in the police, immigration, and vital records, family photos, the memories of students and grandstudents, the love and memories of a traumatized family. I have access to only part of the story, and I have told the forum as much of that part as I can without breaching the privacy of my family. My elders would know other parts of story. My grandfather's friends, students, and associates would know still other parts. The government, police, Chinese hospital, and paramedics would know still other parts. No single human being can know the whole story.

So what Jason is saying and what I am saying can both be true. Perhaps, the police classified the murder as unsolved, because the murderer was a child, and the police never discovered the men who ordered him to murder my grandfather.

You state that someone put 5 or 6 tongs together money-wise to sponsor the hit, and that the dollar amount was about someone's weight. This I do not know. How did you learn of this yourself?

When you request that I tell you something from the inside, do you feel that I am not? Is not a young elementary school child seeing and hearing the last couple of years of his beloved grandfather's life inside enough? Is not the love of a child for this beloved grandfather inside enough? Is not the infinite depths of the human soul inside enough? With that said, do you feel that I am misusing my grandfather's name?

Lawrence

[diego]

Hi once ronin,

The story is in the police, immigration, and vital records, family photos, the memories of students and grandstudents, the love and memories of a traumatized family. I have access to only part of the story, and I have told the forum as much of that part as I can without breaching the privacy of my family. My elders would know other parts of story. My grandfather's friends, students, and associates would know still other parts. The government, police, Chinese hospital, and paramedics would know still other parts. No single human being can know the whole story.

So what Jason is saying and what I am saying can both be true. Perhaps, the police classified the murder as unsolved, because the murderer was a child, and the police never discovered the men who ordered him to murder my grandfather.

You state that someone put 5 or 6 tongs together money-wise to sponsor the hit, and that the dollar amount was about someone's weight. This I do not know. How did you learn of this yourself?

When you request that I tell you something from the inside, do you feel that I am not? Is not a young elementary school child seeing and hearing the last couple of years of his beloved grandfather's life inside enough? Is not the love of a child for this beloved grandfather inside enough? Is not the infinite depths of the human soul inside enough? With that said, do you feel that I am misusing my grandfather's name?

Lawrence

I think you should publish an English bibliography and from that money get some one to restore the lost sword film

[ljeung]

I think you should publish an English bibliography and from that money get some one to restore the lost sword film

Hi diego,

Do you mean publish an English-language biography on my grandfather? I wish I could that, but as I tried to say in my previous post, I do not know the whole story of his life. once ronin made me realize that what I do know is just so fragmentary, skeletal, and personal as to be dubious to some people. If I were to write something comprehensive, substantial, well documented, factual, and scholarly, I would have to do a lot of research and pester a lot of people in my family, in the martial arts, in the SFPD, at Chinese Hospital, at SF City Hall, in the Hong Kong film industry, in the U.S. government, in the Republic of China Air Force, and, might I dare say, in the gangs and tongs. I would need to do a lot of traveling. I would need many years to write it. And I would need lots of support and encouragement.

Also, I was also planning to write a book on my grandmother's family, which had arrived in the U.S. in 1869, survived the Great SF Earthquake and Fire of 1906, and knew, sheltered, and aided Dr. Sun Yat Sen.

And I have a family to raise and a mortgage to pay.

So I would also need to do a lot of prioritizing.

Sorry, diego, I hope I did not sound too discouraging. I too want to see the lost sword film.

Lawrence

[ljeung]

Hi once ronin,

The story is in the police, immigration, and vital records, family photos, the memories of students and grandstudents, the love and memories of a traumatized family. I have access to only part of the story, and I have told the forum as much of that part as I can without breaching the privacy of my family. My elders would know other parts of story. My grandfather's friends, students, and associates would know still other parts. The government, police, Chinese hospital, and paramedics would know still other parts. No single human being can know the whole story.

So what Jason is saying and what I am saying can both be true. Perhaps, the police classified the murder as unsolved, because the murderer was a child, and the police never discovered the men who ordered him to murder my grandfather.

You state that someone put 5 or 6 tongs together money-wise to sponsor the hit, and that the dollar amount was about someone's weight. This I do not know. How did you learn of this yourself?

When you request that I tell you something from the inside, do you feel that I am not? Is not a young elementary school child seeing and hearing the last couple of years of his beloved grandfather's life inside enough? Is not the love of a child for this beloved grandfather inside enough? Is not the infinite depths of the human soul inside enough? With that said, do you feel that I am misusing my grandfather's name?

Lawrence

Hi once ronin,

The situation of Jason and I saying apparently contradictory things about the same event is an instance of the Rasho-mon* effect, at least one step removed.

By the way, did you know my grandfather or ever meet him?

* Sorry about the dash, but the forum software automatically censored the word when it did not have the dash.

Lawrence

[ljeung]

Hi Jason,

Yes, some of my family members, including my mother, did practice Hop Gar, but all but maybe one stopped after my grandfather died. They were just too distraught and traumatized.

My grandfather's death may well have been a hit. I am sure the man or men who ordered the hit had to find someone who was not only financially and socially hungry enough to follow the order, but also someone who was emotionally hungry. My family told me the man who shot my grandfather was just a child. If he has since been released from prison, I sincerely hope that he has been rehabilitated, has stayed far away from the gangs, has become well educated, and has lived an upstanding life of a family man, teaching his children to be good, honest, decent, charitable, loving human beings. If he has fallen again, then I will be saddened, for while the loss of one life is a tragedy, the loss of two is worse.

Lawrence

Hi Jason,

I am curious though. I do not recall ever reading or hearing in the news about a trial by jury for the child who committed the murder (I started following the news when I was very young). How did the state imprison him without due process?

Lawrence

[htowndragon]

i do not know. what i "heard" , mind you, I am also getting a fragmented story from a certain group of people, that they hired a 14 year old to show up at his door, and fired four shots from a .22 caliber pistol. someone i know met the man since he has been released. how the entire trial process was carried out, etc. is not something i know about. what i know of the assassination is in line with what "once ronin" says it to be. that's the only account i've ever heard of in regards to your grandfathers death.

[ljeung]

i do not know. what i "heard" , mind you, I am also getting a fragmented story from a certain group of people, that they hired a 14 year old to show up at his door, and fired four shots from a .22 caliber pistol. someone i know met the man since he has been released. how the entire trial process was carried out, etc. is not something i know about. what i know of the assassination is in line with what "once ronin" says it to be. that's the only account i've ever heard of in regards to your grandfathers death.

Hi htowndragon,

My mother told me something similar to what you heard. Ever the actress, she even reenacted the shooting (she started acting as a young girl in order to help support the family, some time after they had fled to Hong Kong from the Communist Revolution in China in 1949.) In hindsight, this seems rather macabre, since her father was the shooting victim. Did the person who met the shooter tell you in which prison the latter served time and indicate how he is faring? Since the shooting occurred in the U.S., the shooter should have been given due process, and his court case should have been recorded. However, since he was a minor, the courts probably sealed the case files.

Actually, "once ronin" did not seem to have said much about the assassination. Did I miss a second post that he made in this thread?

Lawrence

[htowndragon]

no i believe he was hinting... me and once ronin have corresponded privately and what we know seems to be the same story.

i called my si hing today, any information about your grandfather, in regards to martial arts training would be greatly appreciated. as well as him as a "family man" so to speak. with all due respect to my kung fu grandfather, the stories i have heard about him have only portrayed him as a tough and hard man. of course, there are always two sides to the story.