Letter to Chan family from Hung Sing CLF Master

[Hiram]

I am posting this letter at my Master's request. He has made several unsuccessful attempts to resolve the issue regarding Chen Yong Fa's claim of being "keeper of the style" of Choy Lee Fut. It is an issue that has upset many elders within the Hung Sing CLF community. My Sifu now wishes that everyone know the truth:


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Mr. Chen,
I am disappointed that we have not been able to resolve our disagreement regarding your claims of being the Jerng Mun of Choy Lee Fut. Although my student (Hiram) expressed, on my behalf, our contention that there is NO Keeper of the Style, you have not made any modifications to your website.

I have seen with my own eyes that your site states you are "considered to be the present day Jerng mun yun (Keeper of the style)."

If you are going to make such a claim, please clarify your position as Keeper of the Chan branch of Choy Lee Fut, or as Keeper of the King Mui branch. You are not recognized by Fatshan Hung Sing as the Keeper of Choy Lee Fut.

I have been in contact with elders of the King Mui branch and they've confirmed that there is NO Jerng Mun in Choy Lee Fut. I've spoken with the Canton Athletic association, and they agree as well.

I also recently spoke with Mr. Leung Lai Chiu. His mother was your father's classmate and he is your kung fu brother. He ALSO confirmed that there is NO "present day Jerng mun yun". He is completely opposed to your claims. Again, I implore you to please make the appropriate changes on your webpage in order to avoid any more trouble. If you would like to speak with Leung Lai Chiu his telephone is (86)1390-xxx-xxxx.

If you would like to speak with me, feel free to contact me at your earliest convenience. I am eager to put this matter to rest once and for all.


Regards,
Chan Kam Fai

[JAZA]

DId you send this letter to Sydney? I don't think master Chen reads this forum.
HIram, when and where you claim that there is no JMY. Did you tell it in a forum or in person in Sydney.
If its your opinion why others must obey and change what they believe.
Are you the owner of the truth?.
Everybody coan believe whatever they want, if you think or your sifu that there is no JMY it's OK, but why you make obbey others in order to believe what you believe.
In what affects you that Chan family have a Jern Mun Yan?.
Your sifu claims that he spread CLf over LAtinAmerica. I'm in latinamerica and never haver heard any word of your sifu, need I send him a letter to make him clarify the issue that he only teachs to Venezuela army? I think that this things are coming to a level of stupidity.

[Maestro1700]

chan i live in CT to.. its a really ****ty place for kung fu huh??

anyway nice to see someone whos actually near me..let alone in the same place i mean my god this forum is full of brits and for the most part anon people..

so where you live in CT? id like to talk to you some day maybe next fall?(sounds awkward but im busy this summer)

n e way nice to see someone from CT

[premier]

Well. I think that's just ridiculous, but.. here's some facts. The Chan family Choy lee fut practitioners and sifus never talk about Chan family choy lee fut. If you ask anyone, they'll say they practise choy lee fut, not Chan family choy lee fut. If someone wants to know more, they'll say, they're from the king mui branch. So when Master Chen's disciples call him Jerng mun yun, does it mean he's the Jerng mun yun of all branches? No. No one thinks so. Where did you get that idea? from "keeper of the STYLE"? Did it ever occur to you that the STYLE might refer to Chan family branch of choy lee fut?

Don't take these thing the wrong way deliberately. Think about Jerng mun yun as a title like sifu or sigung. If your sifu says "Hi, I'm Sifu Chan Kam Fai" on his website, I don't write an open letter to the forums about how he's not my sifu. Get the idea?


premier

[premier]

But yeah. I agree it could be explained a bit more clearly, but it doesn't change the fact that you're going over the board with this.


premier

[alecM]

The subject of Chen Yong Fa being the Jun Mun of CLF was discussed on KFO sometime ago and I think it was stated that he was recognised as the Jun Mun of his own branch. I don’t think anyone has any argument with that.

[yik-wah-tik]

premier, because of this dispute and recent revelations the whole jeong mun yan is fueled by this. the chan clan came out strong about direct blood lineage and that chan heung was the founder of clf, and since chan yong fa is family, his website stating that he is the present day jeong mun yan of clf made a whole lot of people mad. to some that was a muscle move, and the other branches know their history and are equally as strong or stronger.

their are two versions of clf history. the chan which favors chan heung, and jeong yim's branch both hung sing and buk sing believe. chan yong fa is the chan family jeong mun yan. grandmaster kwan mun keng is the jeong moon yan of the singapore hung sing kwoon. and grandmaster jew tien loong is the current jeong mun yan of the 1st american hung sing kwoon est 1939 (officially). prof lau bun has exclusive right to hierarchy in america due to being the first clf man to establish a school in usa. no i don' know who would be the buk sing jeong mun yan, most likely lun chee.

so to you this issue may not mean anything to you but it does to a whole bunch of people.

frank

[Fu-Pow]

Here's a serious question? How can you have a Jeong Yun Man of Hung Sing CLF? I mean the Chan Family Jeong Yun Man makes more sense to me because Chen Yong Fa is part of a family or village. So he is the authority for that particular group. His family members or village members apparently taught him almost all that they new to pass it on to future generations. He is the Jeong Yun Man in the same way that Chen Xiaowang is the Jeong Yun Man of Chen Taiji in Chenjiagou. Not necessarily for all Chen Taiji but for that particular group.

But the as far as the Hung Sing and Baksing branches it doesn't seem to make much sense. The practioners are so spread out and separated how could you give any one elder this status? Do you get what I'm saying. The Chan Family branch seems much more close knit so this designation would be more appropriate, plus you have the blood line.

comments.

[CLFNole]

Fu Pow:

I agree totally its just like using the term grandmaster, it real means nothing to me. I could care less what someone calls themself, bottom line is is your kung fu good, do you still keep in shape and train or do you just talk about what generation or lineage you are from.

You can be the jeong yan mun of your own school, however I think it carries very little weight with anyone outside of that school.

I think the problem that we CLF people are having right now is there is way too much politics and not enough emphasis placed on promoting our great art. All of this who outranks who and what history you believe is really not that important. I believe what I want to believe and you are entitled to believe what you want. I won't force my opinions down your throat and I expect the same.

There are too many conflicting dates and holes in all of the stories out there to ever prove 100% that either side is right. So like religion follow what your sifu teaches you.

Lets get on with this sh!t and talk productively about CLF.

Peace.

[JAZA]

I can't said it better CLFnole.
The great looser of all this discussions with insults is CLF. Who in the world will send their child or choose this style if you can see the minimun respect and tolerance.

[mixxalot]

Agreed! I for one am sick and tired of the pathetic arguing. Come on folks, if your gung fu is good and in line with Choy Li Fut training then lets promote it! I don't see Wing Chun and Hung Gar masters wasting their time bickering over lineage issues. I see them training hard and teaching their students to become proficient good martial artists. Thats the best way to go. Theories and debates over whether the Green Grass monk actually existed are silly. We need to promote CLF!

[DRAGON32]

Good post mixxalot.

[Hiram]

There have been some responses and comments since my Sifu, Chan Kam Fai, made the public statement concerning the position of the Hung Sing Branch on the Jerng Mun Yun issue. I realize some clarifications need to be made.

I will not address each one of you directly, instead, I will respond to the issues raised.


Was this letter sent to Master Chen?

Chen is well aware of the dissatisfaction within the CLF community on his claim to be the Jerng Mun Yun of CLF style. We have no problem with him just claiming to be the "Keeper of the Style" within his own clan, but to say he is the Keeper of all CLF is another story. All we ask is for him to be clear in his own representation and not to confuse outsiders.


There are comments on who is my sifu Chan Kam Fai.
Well. If you really want to know about my sifu, I will suggest you go ask your own elders. Also, feel free to peruse our website at your leisure.


Some of you suggest that instead of this constant arguing, there should be an annual meeting/conference among all the CLF elders and students.

Do you know that the Hung Sing and the Buk Sing have this type of gathering every year already? Maybe you can check with your sifu on when is the next gathering, so that you can come and see. The CLF community is very close-knit.


It is not our intention to come on to this forum to argue. This letter is meant to show the position of the Hung Sing branch on this issue. A lot of you say that it is freedom of speech and it is your right to express your own opinion.
However, you should also respect our words. The right to present a different point of view in an open forum is everyone's right and not yours exclusively.

Finally, we have presented our statement and the position of the Hung Sing branch.
We will not respond to anyone that is not in a position to speak ON BEHALF of the Chen Yong Fa clan.


Respectfully,
Hiram D. Viera

[Serpent]

Are your school and Frank McCarthy's Hung Sing school affiliated?

Are you both the same organisation?

McCarthy claims that his school is the oldest and most established Hung Sing in America, yet you call your school American Hung Sing.

I'm not stirring, I'm genuinely interested.

Do you consider Jew Long the JMY of Hung Sing as Frank McCarthy does?

[flyingdropkick]

i've noticed that some of you people in here 'martial artist' full of bravado and 'martial virtue' say that this is a place for people to spaek their minds because it is a public forum, however when your opinion is not being matched you immediately jump all over the 'offending' person, as in Hiram's case. He has been man enough to put who he is and where he is in the open and you guys 'the faceless posse' harass and berate him every chance you get. tell us who you are and what are your credentials.