Chen style teacher "Chi does not exist"

[greendragon]

here is a good one. this Chen Tai Chi, Hsing-i, Pa Kua teacher is teaching his students that Chi does not exist and acupuncture is quackery. visit www.kungfu4u.com where he runs a discussion board. He is one of those self proclaimed masters "American Tao". Someone in Chen style should set him straight.

[Kumkuat]

old news. And acupunture is as effective as sugar pills.

[Repulsive Monkey]

The bloke who heads that american school seems pretty mixed up and sounds like he has basic and quite superficial understanding of internal. What a joke to say that he studies under Chen Xioa Wang who has spent his whole life cultivating his Qi and the is joker refuses to learn from his extensive experience by being so biased and blatanly ignorant. Of course the sad truth is, is that so many people say they study under great Grand Masters but the reality is that their claims when revealed usually mean that in fact they pay huge sums of money for the master in question to come and visit their school twice a year. This happens with many schools in th UK and europe and because of that everyone thinks they are an indoor disciple or something.
By the way anyone who attaches creedence to Randi and his organistion is a complete wacko in my books. Randi is such an embarassment to the modern world of science its untrue.

Acpuncture as effective as sugar pills? Good lord would it be asking too much Kumkuat as to how your extensive experience and study of the subject has finally brought you to this conclusion? Or is it merely an assumption based on what you've read? I could be wrong but an explanation would set my mind at rest Kumkuat!

[kungfu cowboy]

Actually, sugar pills and other inert substances, and in some cases just certain situations are just as or more effective than a "real" treatment. It's called the placebo effect. HA!

[Liokault]

Chi is non existant.


Some chinese guy 700 (plus)years ago with no acess to modern medical/biological ideas put together a theory on what we today know as our cardio vascular system. He had no idea why blood flowed though our systems,why we breath,how energy gets to our muscles or why it really is good to ejaculate regularly.


Any one who atributes anything in their training to Chi is a fraud or is being badly misled.


Sorry to repeat my self

[Repulsive Monkey]

No need to apologise Liokault it just means that you make yourself look twice as ignorant on this issue.

[Liokault]

No need to apologise Liokault it just means that you make yourself look twice as ignorant on this issue.

Ok Repulsive tell me what "Chi" is.

You cant can you?

Not with out useing terms like mystical flowing energy.

You are so easly sold stupid ideas.

[Repulsive Monkey]

I can't believe how stupid you have just made yourself sound mate! I thought initially that I could of got a seasoned and reasonable debate and discussion out of you but when you come back with such presumptions like that, I can see straight away that I doubt that we're gonna get an objective discussion on a much vaunted subject.
Now I know you're a student or follower of Dan Docherty.

[count]

Can you explain how blood flows? I will than explain to you what chi is without using any terms like "mystical flowing energy"

[count]

I would agree that the placebo affect can be quite powerful. So is hypnotism. HeII, some are gullable enough to believe or government is keeping us safe. But I have seen actual brain surgery with nothing more than acupuncture to stop the pain. Do you think sugar pills would be enough for you to go through that?

[Kumkuat]

I believe ancupunture's effects are mostly due to placebo effects, and maybe because the needles stimulate the nervous system to release endorphins. It doesn't really cure anything except through placebo.

[count]

On one hand Kumkuat, you are saying acupuncture does nothing and on the other you are saying it "stimulates the nervous system to release endorphins". Kind of a contradiction. I am not that knowlegable of Chinese medicine, but it's my understanding that acupuncture is a treatment for why the body got sick in the first place and not a cure for anything. I also don't think needles are placed in nerves. Maybe someone with actual knowledge of it could help here?

[GLW]

What you believe and what are may be and very often are two entirely different things.

Acupuncture has been shown to work in chronic pain instances. The exact mechanism is not fully understood. Some thoughts are through stimulation of the nervous system, endorphins, and other ideas.

Treatment using Acupuncture and Traditional Chinese Medicine have shown some positive effects as well as placebo effects (which are just as valid in dealing with illness...but can be achieved in many ways)

Many studies are inherently flawed. The biggest problem is that they have tried to diagnosis with Western medicine, then treat for that diagnosis with Chinese Medicine. Then Diagnosis with Chinese medicine and treat with Western...and then cross checking diagnoses. This is flawed because the concepts and road maps for diagnosis are different. A map of Liver function from Western medicine to the concept of the Liver in Chinese medicine is not exact and in many cases misleading.

The more successful studies have been double blind with diagnosis and treatment done in a single modality (Chinese or Western). These studies have shown that Chinese medicine does have value and can be an alternative in many instances. In addition, the herbs used are in many instances being examined for active ingredients for pharmaceutical use. This is quite common...for example, the foxglove plant was used for heart problems and was the basis for the drug digitalis.

Be skeptical...I was, but I have also tried it out and researched it. There are benefits to acupuncture and Chinese medical treatments.

[Brad]

What a joke to say that he studies under Chen Xioa Wang

Actually it says his teacher is Jim Criscimagna. Unless you're reading this somewhere else.
Acording to his bio his teachers were:
Grandmaster Sin The (Shaolin-Do)
Karen Vaughn (Tien Shan P'ai)
Pete Starr (Yi Li Chuan- Tai Chi, Bagua, Hsing Yi, Qigong)
Terry Dowd (Boxing)
John Morrow(same as Starr)
Jim Criscimagna (Chen Tai Chi)

Jim's the one who it says studied under Chen Xiaowang

I think it's also important to note that he's studied Chen Taiji for only about 5 years.

[Brad]

It's not so much his disbelief in Chi that bothers me, but the outright insulting way they go about discusion on that board. Flat out making fun of anyone who has a belief that they feel can't be proven through Western science(whether it's Qi, religion, etc.). Very hateful and arogant. It's hard to have respect for someone like that.