How far is too far ??

[stoli]

So how far do you think is too far in a real situation ??

Not talking legally, that's far too complex a subject. What I mean is what do you feel is 'over the top' ? What do you teach students to do ?? Finish someone and make sure thay can't get up ? Escape as soon as possible, even if the attackers getting up?

I realise that generalisations are difficult and each situation would be different but let me give you a scenario.....

Some guy's come up to you and thrown a punch, you were able to react to it and put him down on the floor but he's not actually out, maybe stunned by your punch, elbow (or however you've put him down). So he's gonna get up, what now ?????

Just interested in hearing responses. And please let's dispense with the 'if I hit them they wouldn't be getting up' response!!

[Liokault]

Some guy's come up to you and thrown a punch, you were able to react to it and put him down on the floor but he's not actually out, maybe stunned by your punch, elbow (or however you've put him down). So he's gonna get up, what now ?????

Ok the guy is stunned....now is not the time to hit him more now is the time to get away.

I say this because ethicaly I belive it is wrong to "punish" the guy and realisticaly thease days the longer you stay on the scene the longer his friends have to realise what is happening and join in.

[Repulsive Monkey]

Well said.

[JWTAYLOR]

Ditto.

JWT

[Merryprankster]

Not to mention the legal ramifications. Once the immediate threat of injury is over, it is your responsibility to bail. If you get down and start abusing the guy guess who is legally responsible for his injuries. That is, you COULD have run, but you decided to administer a beating instead.

Not that he doesn't deserve it

[Water Dragon]

I don't feel there's enough specifics to answer the question. Why was the punch thrown? What were the specifics that caused the escalation? What is the environment?

Example, did I put the guy down in a crowded bar or in a deserted alley? Does the attacker know who I am? If so, is he more apt to leave me (and my family) alone in the future if I dip or if I give him a proper thrashing?

It's a deep subject that is totally reliant on the individual circumstances of the situation.

[Leonidas]

I say you knock em out, but that's as far as i would go. I'm basing this on the assumption thats it a criminal trying to rob. maim, kill you. You of course wouldn't do that to your drunk cousin. Better safe than sorry though. Say for example you put him down AFTER he attacks you but he's only dazed and when you try to run away he pulls out a niner and pops you in the a$$, in that case your pretty much fu(ked cuz he's ****ed that you put him down in the first place. I'm not advocating "curbing" him or stomping on his face after he's out, but he is a threat to you and he proved that by attacking you so i'd rather protect myself now and deal with law suits and all that other bs later. You never know, he might be too scared to do anything or doesn't wanna bother with the law. I wouldn't take a chance in turning your back on a still conscious opponent. If you dont wanna knock em out. Put em in a lock and babysit till the cops come. I wouldn't ground and pound either, just a quick chop to the back of the neck or something else that looks "humane" and "civilized". Like a move that your girl would learn in Rape prevention class. Worst thing i would do to a knocked out opponent is make 'em walk home without pants

[Alkerian]

That's something I've always thought of too.

Let's say you are in a fight, no matter what the reason or situation, the guy is in front of you and you have to do somethign to him to win.

Now, you can give him a good punch in the cheek or stomach, without doing too much damage, and then lock him and escepe or whatever.

Or you can decide to kick him in the joints, balls, poke his eyes break his spine, neck, bones etc...

Now, which do you choose?

And are you not scared of killing the guy? disabling him for life and getting into trouble with authorities?

[Water Dragon]

'Sup,
Where you at in Indiana? I stay in Hammond.

[Shadow Dragon]

Let's say you are in a fight, no matter what the reason or situation, the guy is in front of you and you have to do somethign to him to win.

Thinking of "winning" or "loosing " in a streetfight is wrong.
There are no trophies, prices, reward or anything.
But there is a good chance that both will need some form of medical attention/healing afterwards.
If you get out of it with minimal Injury your MA did the Job.

Cheers.

[Former castleva]

First make sure you will be able to leave alive or without injuries and that civilians or your loved ones are safe.
Then after that,you can think about your attacker´s well-being.
It´s strange kind of business.
A throw you commit may end up with attacker dying,so may his two-hand front push end up with you...again dying.
A knock-out punch to jaw may also do the same.
It is important to try to do as little damage as possible,but sometimes it may work out with you getting damaged with hardest possible ways.
First safety,then law.
There´s a lot more to this.
Maybe I´ll go to the audience for a while.
And yeah,worthy thread.
Cheeers.

[stoli]

Well thanks for the replies and keep them coming !!

Interested in this because I still see a number of people teaching the 'stomp on someone to make sure they don't get up approach'. To me this is probably more dangerous for the student than the attacker !! So you've got away yourself but at what cost??? All the tough guys out there might say 'stomp him, he deserved it' but would they feel the same way if they were up on a manslaughter or murder charge ?? How would they feel knowing they'd killed someone ?? What if there own brother / friend had been drunk and thrown the first punch at someone else who then stomped on them ?? Feel the same way then ??

Water Dragon, lets say it's not in a bar, it's on a street that looks empty....but is it ??? As for does he know you well....... can you really be sure either way??

Not trolling for a response, just playing devils advocate, like to hear opinions.

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by stoli

Water Dragon, lets say it's not in a bar, it's on a street that looks empty....but is it ??? As for does he know you well....... can you really be sure either way??

Not trolling for a response, just playing devils advocate, like to hear opinions.

OK, sure. But first, you need to realize that someone did a zip code check for me that my old hood is more dangerous than 96 % of zip codes in America. I don't want to get into specifics, but I had to bury someone who was murdered by a 17 year old punk about 2 months ago.

Because of that, if something went down, I would hurt them. Badly. I know what they have in stored with me. I would probably try to throw them down very hard and them pull my gun on them. If they moved, I'm 100 % sure I would shoot them.

Of course, if the same thing happened in a suburb, I might just punch them in the neck and leave.

That's why I say it depends on the variables.

[Former castleva]

Let´s say law may not always be on your side,but I certainly have got the idea that stomping would be seen as unnecessary roughness from the law´s eye.
Not to mention stomp kick on toes )(good tech actually I believe)

[Budokan]

"Never leave an enemy behind."

This was good advice back in the day, and it's good advice now.