Lung Ying Wooden Dummy

[Ao Qin]

Hi all,

My friends and I are hard at work drawing, and gathering the materials to build a high quality, traditional, Dragon Style wooden dummy. My Sifu gave me the general drawings / plans, but I would like to discuss materials, and ideas, with anyone who has had some sucess with actually building one.

Please share if you are able, through this thread, or email me directly @ hkbark@mts.net.

Cheers - Kevin

P.S. anyone know how to run a spell-check on this forum?!?

[mantis108]

Hi Kevin,

Great to hear that you and your friend are building one. I have only heard of the Wooden Dummy training in Lung Ying. There was an article in one of the old HK MA magazine. If memory serves, it is similar in design to the Wing Chun dummy. As far as the form goes, it is supposed to be done within 4 square tiles. Definately a close range one. Unfortunately, I don't remember which lineage of Lung Ying have that particular form (I don't even remember the name of it) Anyway, wish you best of luck in your endoeuver.

Regards

Mantis108

[meltdawn]

Hi Kevin,

What coincidence! My master has a piece of land we are going to start training at. He has some cool "obstacle course" stuff planned. I am sure that a dummy of some sort will be a part of the equation. I will be happy to exchange information.

[Paul Skrypichayko]

Hello guys, I'll be making a few different types of dummies (wing chun, clf, hung gar, mechanical, etc.) towards the end of summer.

If you send me the plans, we might be able to discuss some good ideas. If you're interested, I could make it to your specs, and sell you the finished product.

I will be away from my computer for quite a while due to my erratic work schedule. PLease be patient, and ask before sending any large email attachments. Thanks.

[kei lun]

You are going to build a �gtraditional�h Dragon Style dummy? There is NO dummy in Dragon style! The hand movements of Dragon are well suited to the dummy (of Wing Chun) as are most of the Hakka Arts. However there is something that is completely unsuitable to the dummy, which is the �gpower�h! True power in Dragon Style would destroy the arms of a wooden dummy (or of the practitioner). And the power of Dragon Style cannot be toned down; if it were then it wouldn�ft be Dragon Style! Anyone who has learned the original power in Dragon Style I think would agree with this. That�fs probably why Lam Yiu Kwai never created a Dummy Form, if he did (?) he never taught it to my Sifu. If you do create a form or set of movements on the dummy then you are �gwatering down�h the style. The dummy is fun to work with but it doesn�ft belong, nor will it ever belong, to Dragon Style Kung Fu!

[Hideous]

kei lun - There is NO dummy in Dragon style!

So you say, are you the Jerng Mun Yun of the Lung Ying Pai?

kei lun - True power in Dragon Style would destroy the arms of a wooden dummy (or of the practitioner).

Pray tell, how do you practice your so powerful hand then, by striking empty space and working against air?

kei lun - And the power of Dragon Style cannot be toned down; if it were then it wouldn’t be Dragon Style!

Truly amazing. So then, how do you practice to develop the skills necessary for actual fighting, by striking empty space and working against air?

kei lun – Anyone who has learned the original power in Dragon Style I think would agree with this.

I take it you are the Jerng Mun Yun of the Lung Ying Pai since you speak for everyone, is this true?

kei lun – That is probably why Lam Yiu Kwai never created a Dummy Form, if he did (?) he never taught it to my Sifu.

Please be so kind as to list for us the famous Sifu that Lam Yiu Kwai defeated in gong sau.

kei lun - If you do create a form or set of movements on the dummy then you are watering down the style.

So you say, and your authority to speak so stems from exactly what?

kei lun - The dummy is fun to work with but it doesn’t belong, nor will it ever belong, to Dragon Style Kung Fu!

So you say, however, such a proclamation can only be properly made by the Jerng Mun Yun of the Lung Ying Pai. Are you that person?






Cannibalism is unequivocally a valid dynamic for all societies. I am, Hideous.

[fiercest tiger]

I have a picture of a dragon master kicking what they call there wooden dummy which is a wooden post in the ground!

hope this helps!

garry

[Ao Qin]

Hello everyone!

I agree that some of the power we are trying to develop is not brought about by training on WDs. However, there is of course a strong external element in Lung Ying as well (e.g. "Three Star Blocking", sand bag training, etc.). If your hands and arms are not strong and extensively conditioned, you will not have the means to apply the internal method.

By the way, Dragoners all over the world use WD of various forms - some very simple, some more complex (I'm sure some schools don't!). I haven't seen any official "form" either, but I have been taught several sequences to concentrate on. Some of the two-man forms could easily be broken down on a WD. Start with Chut Sing San Sau if imagination is initially lacking.

The ones I have seen are not similiar to the WC model. Fierce Tiger was closest - basically a pole sticking out of the ground. One arm (rounded), which gives up and down (for Lop Sao) - through a weight or spring mechanism. Anchored in cement with slightly rounded bottom so that WD rocks slightly when you hit it. Attach pads (if desired). Torso should be a softer wood.

Hi Mantis108 - long time, no hear! Thanks for your kind recomendation to our Bak Mei friend!

Thanks to everyone for the private emails as well - I'll respond as quickly as possible!

[Hideous]

Ao Qin - basically a pole sticking out of the ground. One arm (rounded), which gives up and down (for Lop Sao) - through a weight or spring mechanism. Anchored in cement with slightly rounded bottom so that WD rocks slightly when you hit it. Attach pads (if desired). Torso should be a softer wood.

Reads about right.

Kei Lun is apparently a rather prolific martial artist as he posts extensively on a Choy Li Fut thread as well. In the interest of time I will tell you that he speaks with an equal level of authority and knowledge on the CLF thread

CLF is CLF and LYP is LYP and never the twain shall meet.






Cannibalism is unequivocally a valid dynamic for all societies. I am, Hideous.

[kei lun]

Wow!!! Only one post and hit with so much hostility! Whats the problem Hideous? Did your dad used to beat you when you were a kid, cause you got some serious issues.

Hideous - So you say, are you the Jerng Mun Yun of the Lung Ying Pai?

You heard him�c everyone who is not the Jeung Mun Yan please refrain from making any comments!

Hideous - Pray tell, how do you practice your so powerful hand then, by striking empty space and working against air?

Does a boxer strike a concrete wall to train his power? How bout a sandbag�c could work?

Hideous - Truly amazing. So then, how do you practice to develop the skills necessary for actual fighting, by striking empty space and working against air?

Striking empty space and working against the air�c you mean forms? I guess your right, we should all stop with those useless forms, I mean since striking that empty space cannot develop the skills necessary for actual fighting.

Hideous - I take it you are the Jerng Mun Yun of the Lung Ying Pai since you speak for everyone, is this true?

True? Truth is what ever you believe it to be, if you believe me to be the Jeung Mun Yan than it is true for you.
Do you take it now that I believe I am Buddha?

Hideous - Please be so kind as to list for us the famous Sifu that Lam Yiu Kwai defeated in gong sau.

If I tell you the answer can I really be the Jeung Mun Yan? Only he knows that treasured bit of knowledge right?

Hideous - So you say, and your authority to speak so stems from exactly what?

My authority to speak my mind on an open form? I suppose I should have consulted the elders in China for their permition first. Please forgive me one and all, I am embarrassed.

Hideous - So you say, however, such a proclamation can only be properly made by the Jerng Mun Yun of the Lung Ying Pai. Are you that person?

Gee you got me, Im not the Jeung Mun Yan. I only pretend to be him so I can control all Lung Ying practitioners across the globe through my propaganda. I think he shall give me a thrashing for the remarks I have made, as well he should!

PUBLIC APPOLOGY EVERYBODY FOR SAYING DRAGON STYLE DOESN�fT HAVE A DUMMY FORM!




Hideous, lei yau mo lei yau gong gum yeung? Dim gaai lei ho lau? Yue gwo ngoh m ngamm lei gong bei ngoh ji, m sai da sei ngoh. Lei ji m ji me-yeh yi si aaaaa? Ho Bit leh!

Kei Lun

[kei lun]

Checked up on me did ya, attacking for my Choy lee fut posts as well huh. Looks like your really out to get me.

Lei sik m sik baat wa? Ngoh gong gum yeung m gwaan lei si. Lei ho baat gwa.

[Hideous]

kei lun - Wow!!! Only one post and hit with so much hostility!

On this, a Lung Ying Pai thread. Your repeated posts on a CLF thread speaks for itself.

kei lun - Did your dad used to beat you when you were a kid, cause you got some serious issues.

I am, Hideous.

kei lun - You heard him everyone who is not the Jeung Mun Yan please refrain from making any comments!

Comments are most welcome by forum participants, I am sure. After all, that is the life blood of interactive forums. Authoritative declarations are properly reserved to those with the requisite recognized rank and skill within their respective Pai.

kei lun - Does a boxer strike a concrete wall to train his power? How bout a sandbag�c could work?

I take it that in addition to being an authority on CLF and LYP you now claim to also be a credible expert on the sport of western boxing. Is this correct?

kei lun - Striking empty space and working against the air you mean forms?

No.

kei lun - I guess your right, we should all stop with those useless forms, I mean since striking that empty space cannot develop the skills necessary for actual fighting.

I find it highly unlikely that someone of your considerable inferred expertise in various disconnected activities has the time to dedicate to learning even one kuen correctly. You appear to be far too busy mastering the intricacies of mouth boxing via excessive participation in threads for which you are ill equipped.

kei lun - True? Truth is what ever you believe it to be, if you believe me to be the Jeung Mun Yan than it is true for you.

Reductionist relativism is a rather passé philosophical pursuit and I believe you to be far less than the Keeper of anything beyond your own grossly inflated ego.

kei lun - Do you take it now that I believe I am Buddha?

See above.

kei lun - If I tell you the answer can I really be the Jeung Mun Yan?

No.

kei lun - Only he knows that treasured bit of knowledge right?

It would serve to identify your source of information. My guess is the Internet and magazines.

kei lun - My authority to speak my mind on an open form?

No, your source of authority for making a number of authoritative pronouncements concerning the practices inherent in LYP. If you preface such comments with “IMO” then it negates the necessity for ascertaining the level of your authority as your post is recognized as being a personal opinion.

kei lun - I suppose I should have consulted the elders in China for their permition first.

Doubtful that you know any Elders in China, or Chinatown for that matter.

kei lun - Please forgive me one and all, I am embarrassed.

Feigned embarrassment is so terribly juvenile.

kei lun - Im not the Jeung Mun Yan. I only pretend to be him so I can control all Lung Ying practitioners across the globe through my propaganda.

Doubtful that one of your arrested mental and emotional development can control so much as his own bladder.

kei lun - I think he shall give me a thrashing for the remarks I have made, as well he should!

Hardly something the Jeung Mun Yan would bother with. As you read, a task most suitable for a beginning student; much like taking out the trash.

kei lun - PUBLIC APPOLOGY EVERYBODY FOR SAYING DRAGON STYLE DOESN’T HAVE A DUMMY FORM!

Yet another display of juvenile and disingenuous behavior.

As you have chosen to spread a plethora of decidedly presumptuous posts I will not afford you the privilege of posting your subsequent response(s) in anything other than a language common to the majority of forum participants. Nei don mdon, ah?


Cannibalism is unequivocally a valid dynamic for all societies. I am, Hideous.

[mantis108]

Hi Kevin,

I have been preoccupied with the Mantis world. Lots of visitors from that side of the world. lol... So I am behind in touching base with my fellow Lung Ying and Bak Mei brothers. I will try to catch up.

I think you are right that the Chut San Sau are great to begin with.

Here's some ideas for the 7 hands to use with a Wing Chun type of WD.

Soy Kiu: great to use on the upper arms. Both outer or inner gates can be attacked with this hand. Work on the middle arm with a low Soy Kiu as well. Sink with the stance and capitalize on the body weight.

Bui Gim: attack to the side of the head (outer gate). Pay attention to the footwork and stick to the upper arms and circular movements.

Kow Pak: The kow can be a grab or a strike. So you get a 2 in one with this move. Best to do with the outer gates & upper arms

Sarm Tong: High low, upper arms middle arm, inner & outer gates

Mor Kup: inner outer gates, advance retreat (jui mor tui mor). If you want to be a bit more fancy with this, do the Lung Ying Mor Kiu sequence Tui Mor with the Tarm Ging. Also Mor Kup can be turn into high low Gohr Jeung. So you get more out of it.

Larm Da: A full larm da to the trunk (both hands on the trunk). Or a bui Tsui (palm on the upper arm punch to the body). Can also make use of the middle arm as well.

Chung Tsui: Again high low lines. Look into arm break/arm bar with this one.

Bascially with these you are looking at 10 - 20 moves on one side of the WD. Adding the moves in the middle, you are looking at another 10 moves or so. That means you should be able to do a "form" of 30 to 40 moves easily. BTW, you can add the kicks in there too. Just a few thoughts

Mantis108

[Ao Qin]

Hullo all,

Sorry - hope I didn't inadvertantly insult anyone - I really didn't want to cause any animosity! I believe the WD is just a tool - and it belongs in any kungfu style's toolbox. I'm not proposing "enshrining" it in the formal curriculum for goodness sake! Different styles will "work" with it in different ways, based on their own techniques and methods. Would a Dragoner disdain the simple push-up because it is contrary to what they believe is the "point" to LY?

Anyway - just wanted to thank Mantis108 for his insightful contributions - as usual, I have nothing to say in return - it will take some time to deciminate (where is that spell check function again?!?) all of his insights and input!

Many thanks again!

P.S. - what about the materials / other insights?

[Rolling Elbow]

FT Rules!

Fiercest one,what does your system's dummy consist of? Ninjas usually pounded trees and stripped bark of trees with their fingers rather than work the dummy :-/ ..