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Thread: Traditional training methods

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    Like a discussion around a bridge table?

    Did you ever notice at schools that don't do calisthenics, almost everyone is out of shape? It's almost like they don't workout at home and go to that class because they won't have to break a sweat there either...
    I once jointed in a YMCA Karate class. The instructor always started his class with sit up, push up, running around the room, .... I asked that instructor, "Why do we have to do this? I can do this at home." He said, "Most people don't do this at home." I then found a basic difference in training.

    Some people

    - come to school to "learn" and go home to "train".
    - come to school to "train" and go home to "rest".

    When

    - someone asks, "How many times do you train weekly?"
    - another person asks, "How many times do you train daily?"

    These 2 persons definitely don't belong to the same page.
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 02-02-2013 at 01:40 PM.
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  2. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    I once jointed in a YMCA Karate class. The instructor started with sit up, push up, running around the room, .... I asked that instructor, "Why do we have to do this? I can do this at home." He said, "Most people don't do this at home." I then find a basic difference in training.

    Some people

    - come to school to "learn" and go home to "train".
    - come to school to "train" and go home to "rest".
    I always thought the time would be better spent training technique, but the reality is, if you aren't doing those types of exercises at class; your going to end up with all the lazy people who don't train at all outside of class.

    I've also heard from instructors before, "we shouldn't have to do sit ups and push ups in class, but most people won't do them at home."

    I think the better approach is a longer class to accommodate the workout. It weeds out the lazy people who will then go do internal only and talk about how they don't need to spar, condition, fight or ever test themselves to know they are deadly masters.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    It weeds out the lazy people who will then go do internal only and talk about how they don't need to spar, condition, fight or ever test themselves to know they are deadly masters.
    The easiest solution is to ask your students to do this partner drills as many time as you want them to do.

    http://imageshack.us/a/img208/2400/singleleg.jpg

    My 1st school used to be a Kempo Karate school before I took over. Next door of that school was a topless bar. Before that it was a bowling alley, and before that it was TKD master Jhoon Rhee's 1st TKD school in Austin, Texas. The topless bar owner told me that the Kempo instructor who taught there before used to ask his students to stand in horse stance, he then went to next door to have a drink.
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 02-02-2013 at 02:05 PM.
    http://johnswang.com

    More opinion -> more argument
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    No opinion -> no argument

  4. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    Like a discussion around a bridge table?

    Did you ever notice at schools that don't do calisthenics, almost everyone is out of shape? It's almost like they don't workout at home and go to that class because they won't have to break a sweat there either...

    It depends on the level you are at, beginners need a raw raw person to tell them what to do, like early schooling, advanced people know their goals and can progress on their own.

    Being in great shape does not dictate effectiveness , but is more of a beginner thing because they don't know anything or can't do anything yet on their own,, so exercising them makes them feel like they accomplished something, even though they didn't learn anything.( martial art jazzercise )

  5. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Robinhood View Post
    It depends on the level you are at, beginners need a raw raw person to tell them what to do, like early schooling, advanced people know their goals and can progress on their own.

    Being in great shape does not dictate effectiveness , but is more of a beginner thing because they don't know anything or can't do anything yet on their own,, so exercising them makes them feel like they accomplished something, even though they didn't learn anything.( martial art jazzercise )
    Well, a motivated person will work on whatever he knows, beginner or not. An unmotivated person won't do a whole lot out of class; even if he's "advanced."

    Exercising is accomplishing something. If your stronger, more agile, have better cardio than before; you will be a better martial artist and more likely to be able to use whatever you learn.

    Kung Fu is a skill achieved through hard work. I don't know how you can have Kung Fu without hard work.

  6. #51
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    Personally I think conditioning is everything in a fight/sparring. Sure, you need a well rounded personal inventory of skills and techniques but if you have no gas then you're in for a very short and painful ride.

  7. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenBrain View Post
    Personally I think conditioning is everything in a fight/sparring. Sure, you need a well rounded personal inventory of skills and techniques but if you have no gas then you're in for a very short and painful ride.

    Gassing in a fight is one of the worst and most humbling experiences in martial arts.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    Gassing in a fight is one of the worst and most humbling experiences in martial arts.
    That is no lie my friend.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenBrain View Post
    if you have no gas then ...
    That's my definition of Qi. When you move in combat speed and still be able to breath comfortably, you have Qi, otherwise, you don't.
    http://johnswang.com

    More opinion -> more argument
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  10. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    Well, a motivated person will work on whatever he knows, beginner or not. An unmotivated person won't do a whole lot out of class; even if he's "advanced."

    Exercising is accomplishing something. If your stronger, more agile, have better cardio than before; you will be a better martial artist and more likely to be able to use whatever you learn.

    Kung Fu is a skill achieved through hard work. I don't know how you can have Kung Fu without hard work.
    It depends on how you define hard work, if you only define hard work as breathing hard and sweating a lot, then it would be easy, but like in life, there is more to it than just sweating and breathing hard.

    Training smart or efficiently , getting the most bang for your buck, developing something that is not dependent of having to be physical strong to make work which then can be added to indefinitely.

    There is nothing wrong with being fit, but it is not a skill, only a condition, if you depend on that or rely on that as your skill , when you get older you will not have much that you have retained from all that hard work . Depending on only conditioning would be like adding money to a bag with a hole in it, eventually the money will escape faster than you can add it.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    That's my definition of Qi. When you move in combat speed and still be able to breath comfortably, you have Qi, otherwise, you don't.
    That is the goal fo sho.

    Here's my personal story of the night... I normally eat really well however last week I overloaded my spaghetti squash with too much red sauce which caused such bad heartburn with accompanied cold sweats that I thought I was having a heart attack. Of course I went to the ER because that's one thing you really shouldn't wait on. Everything turned out great but as a precaution my Dr. recommended I have a follow up stress test since I'm 41 just to be sure all was well. Now to the cardio part (sorry, I'm long winded).

    My cardio was so good that it took about 40 minutes of running up hill on that freaking treadmill while talking the whole time to the nurse just to reach my target which was 179 over something and a pulse rate of 152. I stayed at 130 to 140 pulse rate until about minute 35 and then the treadmill maxed out it's incline and speed and a few minutes later, finally 152. Without a great workout plan and lots of cardio I would never have been able to do this. I'm very thankful to say the least. At rest my BP is 116 over 69 and pulse rate in the 50's. So, the moral here is don't forget to work on the cardio, and don't use to much red sauce.
    Last edited by GoldenBrain; 02-02-2013 at 07:10 PM.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    The following is a 100% TCMA training method.

    - Your left hand grab on your opponent's right wrist.
    - Your right hand grab on his left wrist.
    - You raise up his right arm.
    - You pull down his left arm.
    - You slide in and strike your right shoulder on his chest.
    This type of training is good.

    I like that it teaches the students to want to get in tight to attack. Each partner tries to knock down the other one first.

    A lot of times the students hold back and hesitate or don't fully engage when sparring. Part of this is fear of getting in close, and feeling of being in danger.

    This kind of training develops a new instinct and gives them more confidence in being close range.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenBrain View Post
    On our sparring days we sometimes break the Kwoon up into 3 zones for 3 mins each, first being the heavy bag, then to the grappling area then to the standup. Many non martial artists just don't get how taxing 9 minutes of all out exertion is on the body and when you do it over and over again during a sparring class it's just a gut buster. I love it!
    Nice routine.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    The topless bar owner told me that the Kempo instructor who taught there before used to ask his students to stand in horse stance, he then went to next door to have a drink.
    You didn't go over there during class when he told you, right?

  15. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Robinhood View Post

    Training smart or efficiently , getting the most bang for your buck, developing something that is not dependent of having to be physical strong to make work which then can be added to indefinitely.
    The problem is...to make something "work", it has to be consistently tested under pressure. To constantly test skill under pressure, you need to be in decent shape. How do you truly develop a skill without pressure testing it? How do you constantly pressure test without conditioning?

    I think very few 85 year old martial artists could hold their own against a 30 year old athlete. That's reality. Hopefully at the end of a MA career we'll have learned enough wisdom to not need to be able to use the skills.

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