Would you convert into a different religion just to learn a certain style?

[PaulLin]

May we all benefit form our communication and gain more tao, love, and truth. God bless you all.

[scotty1]

PaulLin check out my thread on the Qigong forum, it's aimed at you.

[Braden]

Serpent

I still think you're being rather selective with which parts of the arguments you are prepared to discuss and which you aren't

Without you specifying what 'parts of my arguments' you weren't sure on, I typed up two pages of clarifications. Not sure what else you want. If you could specify further what you want me to elaborate on, I'd be glad to.

In answer to your question, I want to know what you believe in. Do you have a religious faith? Do you have a belief in what happens after death?

Yes and yes.

[Gabriel]

Ok alot of stuff bouncing around here.

Braden.

No biggie, I was just trying to see where you were coming from and what stance you were taking.

"This argument is based on the assumption that the purpose of religion is to protect us from things we don't like. Which simply isn't the case. "

Thats really based on what type of "like" or dislike it is. Are you really comparing the vast, overwhelming, and inevitable concept of death with the smell of earthworms or spilled ice cream? I agree that Christianity doesn't comfort an individual in all his dislikes, but certainly some bigger issues, like death and sin. Look at the guys on Death Row. A great many of them become devout Christians before getting zapped. Is this because they are truly repentent? Maybe. But they KNOW they are going to die (unless, of course the Governor gives a call). Reason they convert? Fear of death and what lies beyond, and the comfort that they can be forgiven in the eyes of God, have their sins lifted fromt them due to Jesus's sacrifice, and go to Heaven.

But whatever, that wasn't my initial argument, which I am being cleverly diverted from. My original point was most religions explain the process of death, and what happens afterwards. I used the Christian examples to back up this statement. Whether or not other religions besides Christianity have an aesthetic afterlife if proper conduct is practiced is irrelevant to my original argument.

So,

"Consider the religion of the Sumerians - their afterlife was the same for hero, villian, king, and beggar: a colorless world with nothing to eat but dust and nothing to fill the days but being slaves to the gods. "

This merely serves to illustrate my point. The religion of the Sumerians, while sucking totally, and being most unsweet , still has a concept of afterlife.

"Gabriel had put forth the idea that a religion's primary characteristics were it's ethics and it's metaphysics. This was a position I disagreed with."

Ok. so you disagree with it being ethics and metaphysics, so what is it?

Also I still want to explore this "relation to the divine" concept. Does not some element of metaphysics enter one's relation to the divine?

"Yes and yes."

Lmao. We'll get you yet! Don't pose yes or no questions against Braden.

Maestro

" which is such an ignorant statement "

"most people here wont agree because they are
ignorant "

"but i doubt he will because from his vast "knowledge" it seems to me like it adds up to diddly squat "

A word of advice. Avoid the use of Ad Hominems in debate and argument. This is referring to the person, as opposed to the issue. Ad Hominems reduce an intellectually stimulating debate into a shouting match. Stick to the issues and people will take you more seriously.

Gabriel

[MonkeySlap Too]

I'm afraid you grossly underestimate my education and from whom it comes. It was only after great soul searching and intensive study that the obvious hit me over the head.

I am painfully aware of the many interpretations of what is said in the bible. I am also painfully aware of the relativistic nature of idiom, semantics, translation issues as well as the diffeing meanings of words and phrases over time.

You can rest assured in your eltist POV that those of us that dare to question, are condemed to a horrible, fiery afterlife with no hope of reprieve. However, many other religions think the same of you, so good luck on your choice. I hope it works out for you.

Frankly, i have never expressed one way or the other wether there is or is not a 'god'. Being a good secularist, I feel this is a personal matter reflected in my conduct, and not something I should impose on others. I reject the concept of living with an elitist view. To me all life is sacred, from the most pious to the most miserable wretch. However, I do not feel fit to judge another based upon arbitrary, cultural patterns of behavior. Every generation in every culture tends to feel they 'have' the truth, and only if those ignorant savages over there would understand. And my point has been that this outlook often turns into: we better kill those heathens.

This does not negate the good that religions have done. But I'll bet that middle eastern religions are probably the #2 cause of death in human history - right after governments. Of course, the two are often hard to seperate.

[ewallace]

A word of advice. Avoid the use of Ad Hominems in debate and argument.

It's funny you mention this. Check out this thread:
http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/foru...5&pagenumber=3

[Maestro1700]

I'm afraid you grossly underestimate my education and from whom it comes. It was only after great soul searching and intensive study that the obvious hit me over the head.

maybe someone should hit you on the head again.

for one thing monkey slap when i reffered to "hell" i wanted you to explain to me what it was to christians and from your pittiful explaination of my post and some minor details of the bible you obviously havent gotten a clue..does that sound like im judgeing?

no. it sounds to me from what you posted that it is true, and i dont underestimate you at all, i know exactly the kind of "knowledge" you have attained from reading the bible and that is none. all youve gained from it is not an idealist pov or a realist, but a negative dislike for the scripture/history of the bible and its followers..

now i didnt take offense to most of it, the only thing i did take offense to was when you said;

You can rest assured in your eltist POV that those of us that dare to question, are condemed to a horrible, fiery afterlife with no hope of reprieve

i did laugh to, but then i took offense becuase you obviously misread my posts, and its also apparent you do not have the understanding you claim of the bible to speak intelligently about it. btw you spelled elitist wrong.

the point is, if any of us here were christians and actually practiced what is preached in the bible we wouldnt be having this arguement, i never said i was a christian but i do understand a few points of the bible, and those few things i do truly understand, i know well enough when someone doesnt, its apparent in everything you say monkey. that goes for serpent and a few others that i doubt have taken more than a few moments time to look over the bible themselves instead of hearing by word of mouth, or from tv or whatever

i study the bible every day for an hour a day and i barely understand it and all its dimensions, you may think you do monkey and thats great youve overcome the great dillusion that terrorizes the entire world, you are a special guy and you deserve to be reveared for your great discovery of no such thing as spirituality..i guess we could all learn from your wise words.

the thing is monkey alot of religions share similarities, like you said they all think they have the "truth" and if you compare those practices and beliefs alot of them come very close to one another at the higher, more spiritual levels, all the commandments etc aside once you get past that and begin to cultivate you spirituality in most all the religions ive research they come together to mean basically the same thing, and all the stuff that comes before is just to prepare the individual for the long journey of spiritual cultivation..one which you seem to have no need for since you understand more then any of use that theres no such thing..

[ewallace]

This is a test of the Emergency Trollcast System. The trollcasters of your area in voluntary cooperation with the Federal, State and local authorities have developed this system to keep you informed in the event of a troll.









If this had been an actual troll, the Attention Signal you just heard would have been followed by official information, news or instructions. This station serves the KFO area. This concludes this test of the Emergency Trollcast System.

[DelicateSound]

Maestro = Dick Head.

[Maestro1700]

let the judgeing begin..thanx ewallace!

fact is i dont really care, for one thing i am right about almost everything i said on that thread, except for maybe some of the insults i flung around at various people..but like i said im not a christian and i dont practice christianity, im 17 and i get pi$$ed off just like anyone else, and the fact that those people can sit there and argue with me, turn around say the same if it not worse bs about me or whatever ive said, and then sit back and judge me and call me immature and make themselves out to be wisemen, well then..thats just something for the history books of the ignorant..

but like i said..let the judgeing begin and the topic drift away..thats the only thing that happens on these forums anyway, argueing about dumb **** that isnt even related to MA, but i dont care im 17 and you all are much older and i have time to waste..you dont, so thats the positive side of this..you all are so much more intelligent and well read, and interesting and great martial artist, yet you spend all your time on forums..hmm somethings missin...welp whatever ill leave it at that.

ds = virgin crybaby

[KC Elbows]

I have learned that if you want to attract wingnuts, just post something to the extent of "Boy, we've kept this pretty civil", and a wingnut will come.

[chingei]

Originally posted by PaulLin
May we all benefit form our communication and gain more tao, love, and truth. God bless you all.

"gain" tao?

[DelicateSound]

It's OK people. Let the caring commence..........

[ewallace]

you all are so much more intelligent and well read

ill leave it at that.

Outstanding. That is the most intelligent thing you have said on this forum.

It doesn't matter what age you are. DS is around the same age. It boils down to intelligence and common sense. I have seen much displayed by DS, and very little by you.

I am not the only one that has pointed out the fact that the likelyhood that you have ever been in an actual street fight is very questionable. All you have managed to do is get into pissing matches with many forum members, as well as issue personal insults. That generally qualifies as trolling. Your debate skills are poor at best, and you become very defensive about your age when it is brought into question in regards to your knowledge.

And I do have time to waste. I get my work done. I do not live with my parents either.

[KC Elbows]

KC[dialing number]

RINGRING

RINGRING

RINGRING

KC: Hello, God?

BALDUR: Nope, sorry, this is Baldur, you've got the wrong number.

KC: I thought you were dead?

BALDUR: Nope

KC: Well, what the hell, that's like a major story in the norse mythos, what's that all about?

BALDUR: Oh, that, it was a big PR thing, y'know. You really shouldn't believe the press.

KC: What!!??

BALDUR: You know, like "Paul is dead". Wasn't true, but it sure got the teen girls screaming.

KC: So the whole point of the mistletoe thing was to get the teen girls screaming?

BALDUR: Whatever. Anyway, I'm not god, so can I go now?

KC: But who is god? We've got a big argument going on here, and we need his input.

BALDUR: I've got it. Here, it's 3-3-3...3-4-5-6

KC: That's the movie phone guy.

BALDUR: Sorry, 5-8-8-2-3-hundred

KC: That's Empire carpets. Is this really Baldur?

Baldur: Nah, ya got me. Its Christ here.

KC: Really?

Christ: Would I sh1t you?

KC: You just did.

Christ: Wouldn't be the first time.