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Thread: What the grapplers think of us

  1. #31
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    In the first pic, I have hold of both his arms and my feet are in his hips. My shins are pressing outwards on his arms near the elbow and I am pulling his arms in. This immobilizes his arms for one, and allows me to actually control his movements very effectively. If he just tries to stand up, he’s going to wind up on his back. If he tries to crush me forward, he’ll wind up on his back. Since I have control of his arms, he can’t punch me. He’s actually controlled.

    In the second picture, I have my left foot in his hip and my right foot is solidly in his bicep. By pulling tight on his arm and maintaining even pressure with my right foot, I can manipulate his balance and posture very easily—as though he were a puppet on a string. Same issue as above.

    In the third picture, I was armbarring the guy, and he had a standard defense in to keep me from extending the arm.
    "In the world of martial arts, respect is often a given. In the real world, it must be earned."

    "A stupid man's report of what a clever man says is never accurate because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand. "--Bertrand Russell

    "Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends of every country save their own. "--Benjamin Disraeli

    "A conservative government is an organised hypocrisy."--Benjamin Disraeli

  2. #32
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    Cool. So once he's controllable, what do you do with him?
    How do you end up in a victorious position from the guard?
    Can you 'win' from the guard?
    How can he beat you when you've pulled guard, what does he have to do?

    Sorry for all the questions, but I have no idea what BJJ even looks like. Comes from coming from England I guess. BJJ is pretty much only available in big cities.
    '"4 ounces deflect 1000 pounds" represents a skill potential, if you stand in front of a 1000 pound charging bull and apply four ounces of deflection, well, you get the picture..' - Tai Chi Bob

    "My car has a lot of parts in there that I don't know about, don't know what they're called, haven't seen them and wouldn't know what they were if someone pointed them out to me .... doesn't mean they're not in there." - Evolution Fist

  3. #33
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    From the guard, you can sweep the opponent to come up on top.

    You can also submit the opponent with a variety of locks and chokes.

    In rare instances, you can take somebody's back from the guard.

    So yes, you can win from the guard.

    In order to beat me, he needs to create an opening for a leg lock or pass my guard (get by my legs) so he can apply a submission. Certain submissions can be done from inside the guard, but these are generally considered low percentage, unless you are freakishly strong/talented (Mark Kerr's neck-crank, for instance). Going for an upper body submission from inside the guard generally results in getting swept or submitted yourself. It's hard to get proper leverage on the submission without leaving your balance open to easy manipulation.
    "In the world of martial arts, respect is often a given. In the real world, it must be earned."

    "A stupid man's report of what a clever man says is never accurate because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand. "--Bertrand Russell

    "Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends of every country save their own. "--Benjamin Disraeli

    "A conservative government is an organised hypocrisy."--Benjamin Disraeli

  4. #34
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    Right. Thanks for explaining, but I think its the type of thing that really needs to be seen/experienced to be understood!
    '"4 ounces deflect 1000 pounds" represents a skill potential, if you stand in front of a 1000 pound charging bull and apply four ounces of deflection, well, you get the picture..' - Tai Chi Bob

    "My car has a lot of parts in there that I don't know about, don't know what they're called, haven't seen them and wouldn't know what they were if someone pointed them out to me .... doesn't mean they're not in there." - Evolution Fist

  5. #35
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    Talking Hey Merry!

    You say you look nehandertal?...I would rather say "australopithecus"...
    Nice pics but you should pick on guys your own size! I have to say, BJJ looks like fun.Happy training!

  6. #36
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    "I have to say, BJJ looks like fun"

    Yeah it does.

    Flame away.
    '"4 ounces deflect 1000 pounds" represents a skill potential, if you stand in front of a 1000 pound charging bull and apply four ounces of deflection, well, you get the picture..' - Tai Chi Bob

    "My car has a lot of parts in there that I don't know about, don't know what they're called, haven't seen them and wouldn't know what they were if someone pointed them out to me .... doesn't mean they're not in there." - Evolution Fist

  7. #37
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    The other guy in the white gi is one of the top purples in the nation. The dude in the blue gi is heavier than me

    And it IS fun
    "In the world of martial arts, respect is often a given. In the real world, it must be earned."

    "A stupid man's report of what a clever man says is never accurate because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand. "--Bertrand Russell

    "Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends of every country save their own. "--Benjamin Disraeli

    "A conservative government is an organised hypocrisy."--Benjamin Disraeli

  8. #38
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    Originally posted by scotty1

    I don't understand what you're trying to accomplish on your back with your legs round the guy. I'm not being funny either, I can't see what the goal of that position is.
    Another obvious answer is it's much better to have
    the guard than to be mounted, cross bodied, have knee to the
    stomach, etc.
    "Courage is the moment when ordinary beings become extraordinary beings."-Brian Jacques

    "Our greatest glory is not in never falling but rising every time we fall."-Confucius

  9. #39
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    more seriously!

    I look at the second pic and I feel you could be going for a triangle...I'm I right?
    The third seems to me like a armbar occasion....I try to understand this style and it,s possibility's.

  10. #40
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    OK...I will sound very uneducated, and I'm not intending a flame war about something I don't know...
    Here's my point: I know NO grappling other than the intuitive one...there is something I do not quite get...when I roll with guys doing grappling (it does not happen that often, but I don't want to die a complete idiot heheheh), I'm quite fascinated by the principles and techniques involved. You get tapped out and don't even realize how it happened (at least I do hehehe). But I have problems with grappling's "statut quo" situations, like being in the guard...why? because for me there are no moves I wouldn't try in a fight...let me explain...I sometimes happened to end up in the position described by the first two pics...indeed, it's great, very frustrating, you can't move and hit...BUT here comes the BUT: I managed to go out of that quite often by just grabbing the guys balls, or even showing I coul bite them...don't ewwwwww me or whatever: when I fight, I try everything...I once got out of a bear hug by biting the guy's throat and ears...I don't care, when I fight I can bite and scratch...here's my point: when I pressed his balls or went to bite them, he pushed me back off violently and gave me a puzzled look like "you're crazy" or "you're gay" or whatever...I had no other options in mind (since I don't know shi@t aboud elbow evades other than what Ralek describes hehehehehe or whatever), I was like a trapped animal and did what I could: find a sensitive target I could reach...he told me "are you crazy?? you just can't do that!!"...EXCUSE ME? Yeah, maybe in a tournament I can't, but in a fight I'm sorry, I'm going for what I can, even if it involves far-from-glorious things like hair or ear-pulling, scratching, biting. I played with tha trying to pull it off as often as I could, until the guy said he wouldn't roll with me anymore, with a shocked expression...
    My overall point is this: there is no safe position on the ground either...the guard might be safe, when you rule out things like biting the nads and crushing them, or pulling the ears, or stupid things like that that are not so stupid and overlooked too often...but in my attempts, even if I couldn't always pull the move, I nevertheless was able to pull such a sucker stuff too often for comfort...
    Grapplers need to realize that in a fight they are as much exposed to the danger of a sucker technique than we are as CMA practicionners exposed to the danger of going to the ground and being toyed with there. I guess as many of them think they are safe here as we do think we won't be taken down...and we're both wrong...
    A fight is always dangerous, a street fight, that is, and even a killer in the ring can be taken by surprise and go down...I know, I know, it's a big ass stereotype we heard like 1000000000 times.
    But still, we should always remember it, whether we are CMA, grapplers, MMA...
    in a fight, nothing makes you 100% safe.

    I wanted to add a more personal contribution to that topic. I didn't intended it to start a flame war (as most of you understood, since there is no war hehehehehe), but rather as the consequence of a big "man, this is so stupid, I have to share it with the KFO guys" kind of reaction. I'm kind of disapointed that the thread I started and got the most responses to ever was the only grappling thread I ever dared, but hey, that's life

    Take care, my friends, and thanks for your reactions!!
    Risk 0 doesn't exist.

  11. #41
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    Smile

    MerryPrankster, exellant form! Crimson Phoenix, you sound like a natural grappler. A little training and you can really frustrate people. Sounds like you keep a clear head and look for targets of opportunity. I think that's 90per cent of the battle.
    " Better to be a warrior in the garden than a gardner at war."
    "Ni hao darlins!" - wujidude
    "I just believe that qi is real and good body mechanics have been masquerading as internal power for too long." - omarthefish

  12. #42
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    Wink In the guard?...

    The best defense in that case is...Start kissing him on the mouth! He will let you go for sure just for the sake of his reputation!

  13. #43
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    Talking

    ROTFLMAO! That sounds like it might actualy work, but then you would have to gargle with lighter fluid.
    " Better to be a warrior in the garden than a gardner at war."
    "Ni hao darlins!" - wujidude
    "I just believe that qi is real and good body mechanics have been masquerading as internal power for too long." - omarthefish

  14. #44
    Pheonix, if the grappler was just "rolling" with you it was a friendly sparring match. Biting, clawing, and head butts are also in many grapplers arsenals and are very natural for them to execute. Sounds like your friend was having fun but you may have paniced and gone further than what was agreed to. If it was no holds barred he may have done the same to you and since he had control probably more effectivly too.
    I quit after getting my first black belt because the school I was a part of was in the process of lowering their standards A painfully honest KC Elbows

    The crap that many schools do is not the crap I was taught or train in or teach.

    Dam nit... it made sense when it was running through my head.

    DM


    People love Iron Crotch. They can't get enough Iron Crotch. We all ride the Iron Crotch for the exposure. Gene

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  15. #45
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    To crimson Phoenix: I started a thread a long time ago that dealt with precisely this issue, and some very knowledgeable people gave some answers. Incidentally, it was also the most popular thread I ever started, too. The name was "Does the guard/mount expose the groin," or something like that.

    -FJ

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