Crane and other Bird Stances

[fa_jing]

Let discuss those stances with bird names, like Golden Rooster, White Crane, etc. I'm particularly interested in those stances which are one legged. This seems to be unique to Chinese martial arts. Do you use such a stance in your system? Why or why not? What is developed, is it a real skill to use in fighting? When you bring up your leg to kick, do you pass through this stance? I know the answers to these questions for Wing Chun, so I'm curious about the other stylists.

-FJ

[GLW]

Typically, single leg stances serve some basic funtions:

For Long fist - there is a single leg stance often used with a punch back. The leg can raise dynamically to get more distance or reach. It is NOT a stance you stay in. There are also other times like this where the stance is moved into for reach out or up....

With a broadsword, it may be used to shift back while brandishing or blocking...again, it is NOT a stance you stay in unless you are doing a routine and showing balance.

Such stances are also used to build balance.

In things like Jin Ji Du Li - golden rooster stands on one leg - there is an application where there is a low block or move out of the way while the foot or knee comes up to strike stomach, groin, etc... and the upper hand is blocking or executing a throat attack.

Again, this is a transition stance and is NOT held for long periods of time...except as a training tool for balance or to demonstrate balance.

No one truly chooses to face an opponent one one leg - if they are thinking. For Chinese styles, doing this against a person who knows Shuai Jiao is like an open invitation to kiss the floor.

[norther practitioner]

The typical high stance from northern Shaolin is also used as a block. The foot and shin are used to block the knee and groin.

[fa_jing]

We use the stance, actually the movement into the stance, to deflect incoming kicks that are coming in at waist height or below. From here, we counter kick one of several targets. We even have counter-counter kicking! You may also raise the leg to re-direct a kick and simultaneously counter with the hands, stepping forward. Finally, it can represent a knee strike.

I practice the Sil lum tao on one leg for balance and exercise. I can do at least 2 minutes on each side.

-FJ

[fa_jing]

oh yeah and we use either the outer side or inner side of the raising leg for the deflection.

-FJ

[dragontounge2]

On legged stances are good for shin blocks and a defense against ground attacks. But if you do use it as a shin block lean forward so you dont fall backwards.

[norther practitioner]

And some kickers do not worry about being grappled or thrown, they have ways and means.

especially if they practice tam tui every day. I hadn't realized until I blew out my knee and haven't trained in a month how fast my feet got. It sucks now, I am slow as a mule, and speed was one of my weapons (no one expects someone my size to be able to counter with a kick so quick). We also have this move, if you move to a high stance to block a kick (actually deflect it to the outside) then sometimes we will try to kinda wrap and step to get a balance advantage. If the kick is deflected to the outside, you just extend your high leg a bit, wrap it around the back of the opponents kicking leg and step back a little.

[SevenStar]

Jin Ji Du Li is also a sweep in longfist. picture having that foot inside of someone's stace, you pull pull your leg back and into the Jin Ji Du Li positon. most likely they will not fall, but their balance is broken. while your leg is raised, follow with a kick.

[fa_jing]

We have two versions of most of our kicks. One that passes through the peng tui (raised leg) stance, indicating a leg block and counter kick. The other version of each kick just goes straight to the target with minimal c.ocking of the leg.

-FJ

[norther practitioner]

Same with us (I actually got deducted at an open tournament by a kempo (I think) judge for not coc king my kicks. I ended up 3rd by less than what the deduction was....I was real happy

[GLW]

Sorry...but the folks I am referring to do Shuai Jiao and also do Northern to a VERY high level. Their kickin IS good. They do not do it.

To try to sucker someone into a move by placing yourself in a dangerous position - simply because you assume you are better than them - and that is how you can do it because if the person is your equal, they will KNOW what to do to take advantage of your position - is arrogant.

The key is ASSUME.... I have never known any good fighters who made any assumptions about an opponent. They noticed patterns but did not depend on them. That way, they could capitalize on them...but would not be suckered in if the pattern was a ruse.

[HuangKaiVun]

I'll face an opponent with one leg - WHILE I'm kicking him with the other.

For example, we all know about Daniel LaRusso's "Crane Technique" in "The Karate Kid". Northern Shaolin has that style as "Black Crow Spreads Wings" in its "Moi Fah" set (BSL #7).

The last time I used this technique was when I was boxing against a much taller guy and we got entangled in a standup position. I didn't mean to, but the ingrained set training kicked in and I kneed him in the nuts when I actually meant to just knee him gently in the thigh. In that scenario, I was on his outside right.

I have had opportunities during sparring to use this move in a different sort of way but haven't because of the damage it could cause. Sometimes a guy will grab me by the arms in order to grapple me. I'll immobilize him with my crane hooks (more like tiger grabs), lift one of my knees off the ground to protect my groin, and then let him have it - with my HEAD.

I never actually do the headbutt in this sparring situation because I do it to the face of an opponent and it could cause serious damage. But it's THERE if I need it.

[GLW]

The original question was do you have a use for them and how...

OK... My background for the last 30 years has been Chinese styles and includes northern and southern...internal and external.

Comparing the underlying concepts and looking for commonalities has been one of the things I do.

In CHINESE styles, I have yet to run into a single style that would advocate HOLDING a single leg stance as a fighting posture. Tha applies to Wing Chun, Hung Gar, Choy Li Fut, Zha Quan, Taijiquan (various types), Xing Yi, Bagua, Shuai Jiao, Tang Lang, Ying Jow, etc... ---I have NOT studied all of these in depth but have compatriots and associates at all levels of teaching that are open to comparing concepts. NONE advocate this.

While you may indeed be able to make it work once...or a number of times.... to go to a stance that is a transitional stance as a stable point is not a good idea. You may indeed be fast enough to make it work...You may indeed be balanced enough to make it work...but I would not bet my life on it....you can.... and send me the obit....

[SifuAbel]

A lure? No.

Single leg moves are the end not the beginning of a technique. Block, sweep or knee lift strike. This is what kills me about some peoples conception of kung fu. It all the movie's fault. In the movies, the guy will do a bunch of moves in the air and start fighting from some queer position. And, people have the weird concept that every move in the form is done as the first move. When in fact, the first move was 5 moves ago and that single leg move could be the last. Or, they offer counters to a particular move without considering that the previous move put them in a postion other than the ready stance. You are definatley NOT standing like the katare kid waiting for the shoot, that would be stupid. In fact the KK stole that move from Siu lum #7. Which are hooks around and between the arm and head( or spreading the arms from a neck grab, take your pick, it a general hook) leading to a knee lift. It is the END of the move. The person has already been moved and hit.

[Water Dragon]

It can also be used in the middle of a move to throw somebody