Boztepe's Hotel Workout

[kungfu cowboy]

I can't wait! Superpowers are cool!

[red5angel]

S teebas said - "Just becasue your stance isnt sunk as deep as some, doesnt mean it has no root or is using excess muscle to be effective. Root, as you call it, is about connection and stability."

Right S. Teebas, and the best way to do that is to get way down and develope it. Try it sometime, get down as low as you can, like two finger widths apart at the knees. Do that for a few months and see if your root doesnt get stronger.
Planetwc also pointed out that for some they do not recquire going down so deep when used against others. This is very true, you go deep during practice ad in the beginning of your learning and later on your root grows strong and you may not have to go so far down.

[dezhen2001]

R5A: why is making your stance like that the 'best' way to do it? Surely it's 'a' way, but i'm also sure there are many other things you can do...?

david

[red5angel]

Like what Dezhen? What would be the disadvantages of a strong root? Some like to say that they lose mobility but you dont, it may take you a while to get your mobility working for you but now you have a solid root as well, and dont recquire as much mobility.
Without storng roots even a willow tree will fall in a light wind.

[dezhen2001]

I didn't say anything about it being a disadvantage, only asked why you said it was the 'best' way... also that i'm sure there are other ways, as every lineage and school do things differently but still develop the same skill...

Me? I just follow what my Sifu tells me

c ya,

david

[red5angel]

Dezhen - How would you develop a good root differently?

[RevTemerity]

Originally posted by red5angel
Dezhen - How would you develop a good root differently?

Well, R5A, there are lots of good ways to root, only some of which require getting "deep" into the stance. For example, and granted it isn't a WC example, Master Choi stands straight up and down, with his legs slightly apart. His root is astounding (see "Warriors of Stillness").

I also know people who have extremely tight tendons such that they can only drop a very short distance when they do Wing Chun before their heels leave the ground. Since that is a definite bozo no-no in their training, they avoid going further than this in their training. I can assure you that they can root as well.

Root is about connection, IMHO, not about how low you can get. If getting low is what bakes your noodle, then go for it. It is not the only way, however.

[yuanfen]

I am excited about wing chun. So many ways to root.
I have seen the light. Enlightment can hang bya thread.

[rogue]

Ya know I've never seen Emin and Joy anyplace at the same time. Is Emin Yuanfens alter-ego?

[Chum Kil]

RevTemerity

It's Master Cai in Warriors of Stillness. Excellent book, but very technical. My Sifu incorporates Wuji, Zhan Zhang into his training as well. I do it once in awhile also.

"Root is about connection, IMHO, not about how low you can get."

Agree with you on this one 100%. I did alot of low stance training in Tang Soo Do, and believe me it's not good for the knee's. When you get older you might feel what I mean.

I saw that one stance of Sifu Ken Cheung, to me it's to low. I couldn't move in it. I guess it's OK for Shil Lim Tao or Chi Sau, but for fighting, not for me. I guess this would be a good time for a question to Ken's students or red5angel. Do you people fight from this stance?

[Beowulf]

Originally posted by Chum Kil

"Root is about connection, IMHO, not about how low you can get."

Agree with you on this one 100%.

I too agree with this. Even so, I sink low for practice in both the sets and chi sao.

I saw that one stance of Sifu Ken Cheung, to me it's to low. I couldn't move in it. I guess it's OK for Shil Lim Tao or Chi Sau, but for fighting, not for me. I guess this would be a good time for a question to Ken's students or red5angel. Do you people fight from this stance?

They can, but fighting is more footwork than stance work, wouldn't you agree?

[Chum Kil]

"They can, but fighting is more footwork than stance work, wouldn't you agree?"

Yes, but you have to start from somewhere.

[RevTemerity]

Originally posted by Chum Kil

"It's Master Cai in Warriors of Stillness. Excellent book, but very technical. My Sifu incorporates Wuji, Zhan Zhang into his training as well. I do it once in awhile also."

Yeah, I knew I was going to screw that up. I wrote it how I've heard it pronounced, but now that you mention it, yes, it is spelled Cai. I loaned my book out and haven't gotten it back.

"'Root is about connection, IMHO, not about how low you can get.'

Agree with you on this one 100%. I did alot of low stance training in Tang Soo Do, and believe me it's not good for the knee's. When you get older you might feel what I mean."

I might already BE that old

"I saw that one stance of Sifu Ken Cheung, to me it's to low. I couldn't move in it. I guess it's OK for Shil Lim Tao or Chi Sau, but for fighting, not for me. I guess this would be a good time for a question to Ken's students or red5angel. Do you people fight from this stance?"

Well, going back to my original statement, if you can connect and connect well without doing it, then that's great. I think planetwc already said, if I remember correctly, that it is a matter of using as much as you need to and no more. If that is how one increases their "connectedness" then I would expect them to go lower as they needed more of it.

I had a friend who was a fairly accomplished wrestler that could do a "gramby roll" (sp?) standing up. I could never imagine doing such an insane thing. But, he could do it easily.

That is to say, I think it's more a matter of how you train. If you train like that, then I would expect you to be able to move like that.

IMHO, of course.

[anerlich]

I'm somewhat amazed that certain individuals on this thread seem to be implying that Emin Boztepe is somehow clueless about WC because he does physical conditioning, and even more amazed that they seem to feel they know more about the right training methods than he does.

It must feel fantastic to know everything about everything, even after only a few years' training.

It's a "granby roll". How do you do it standing up? Not doubting, I just can't visualise it.

[RevTemerity]

Originally posted by anerlich
"I'm somewhat amazed that certain individuals on this thread seem to be implying that Emin Boztepe is somehow clueless about WC because he does physical conditioning, and even more amazed that they seem to feel they know more about the right training methods than he does.

It must feel fantastic to know everything about everything, even after only a few years' training."

I guess it is always easy to lose context is this kind of conversation, but I hope you don't think I said that. People may have varying ideas about how good Emin Boztepe is, but I don't think I'd want to fight him.

"It's a "granby roll". How do you do it standing up? Not doubting, I just can't visualise it."

If my memory hasn't failed me, and since I mis-spelled granby, it may very well have failed me, he simply did the rotation in mid-air when the guy was behind him. It was the strangest thing I ever saw.

Note that we weren't chewing up the collegiate wrestling ranks, either, so I wouldn't recommend it. In our little backwater pond, it worked just fine, but so did a quick crawl away. Anyone from, say, Iowa or the other big guys would have probably gotten him to count the burnt out lights in the ceiling

How he did it wasn't really relevant, though, to what I was getting at. I figured if I tried it, I would break my neck. He had no problem doing it. So what someone is capable of doing, IMHO, is a by product of how they train.