southern mantis-spiritual?

[Sui]

atari,they are storys to which your mind[experiences]are to be your choice of the matter.you tend to seperate all that exsist within the spm/pm discussion for you to understand a way.but there are many ways to feel etc.

"Chu gar as an art has been known to be around before pak mei was invented."

that is a brave assumption for you know niether.

tn
ppl come here for many reasons.yours is a plea to know where you stand in the martial arts world.is safe a keyword for you.one may see it as to post your si-fu and school,a baost and really to come of what may?i take no pleasure to baost who and where [personaly] i learn k.f.i think it defeats the purpose of who we are.
am i wrong to assume this possible way?in all honesty of course.

[atari]

tnwingchun

Agreed, wing chun does have the swallow/spit/float/sink concept which is emphasised more in some non Yip Man branch wing chun. Most southern arts have some form of it eg Hung Gar has open/close/swallow/spit. Some wing chun emphasise the phoenix eye punch just like SPM eg pre Hong Kong Yip Man style. Many so called unique features of SPM are not really that. Another that comes to mind is the "tun hoong, sao kei bui" (swallow chest, concave of the back). In Taiji the classics it mentions "han xiong ba bei" or in Cantonese "hum hoong bat bui" (sucking in of the chest and raising the back).

About the anouncing of school and sifu, maybe you should take a more relaxed stance about it. I know I did not put that in my profile, but some of us do not have a formal school and famous sifus. I myself learnt some Chu Gar from my grand father who learnt it from his village in China. There is no formal school and things are learnt in an adhoc manner. There is no strict tradition or the like, it was just like a past time in which you do it if you liked it. Its just like fathers teaching their son's how to kick a football.

I do some discussion about computer programming in some dicussion boards but no one hassles me about who my computer programming teacher is or what school I went to to learn it.


Fiercest Tiger,
Yes, it all depends on the teacher. I agree that Bak Mei is not just punching as most of its techniques requires trapping, it follows the common saying of "if there is no bridge create a bridge, if a bridge exist destroy it." Some like to specialise but it looks like you like to be well rounded as indicated by your comments on the different ranges.

Why do you say that you don't know about bak mei? Your web page indicates that you teach most of the main bak mei forms anyway. The name might be different but YKM definitely do have strong roots in bak mei.

[atari]

Sui,

I may not know the true history of either bak mei or spm but my main point is the names "Pak Mei Pai" and "Chu Gar Gao". Which one came first?

Lets not take this die-low/sai-low business too seriously. They have very close roots anyway, brothers as you say. In fact I regard PM and SPM as closer than PM and dragon as some say.

[Sui]

atari,no you don't know the true history.

define seriously?to me or you?

brothers?a story.

well good for you that you find this,dragon is above such laymans.

p.s i believe we have met before,chu gar indeed.then how many forms are there from china?


tn i forgot to mention,pak mei is best to fight over w/c i would say.why?b/c its easier and quicker to work "ging lik" as to "lim lik",this is one of many reasons,but then again pak mei isn't the same as bak mei and dr wong knows this too.

pak mei lap shuiw and w/c chi sao is no comparison sooner or later it will turn to lap shuiw no doubt.

[fiercest tiger]

Yes bak mei and Ykm really are the same, although half the bak mei pai people here like to differ! So i try and stay out of this by saying i know jack about bak mei and talk about ykm, then people realise that its the same.

When i say wingchun at the start alot of ykm and bak mei school learn ma bo and postures at the start, but most wingchun schools i have sen they go straight into selfdefence techniques. Both are good!

Sui,

I understand your comment on the Lim Gik TO GING LIK, you do learn faster ging lik to lim gik. Would the body register before the mind?

anyway didnt chu gar have one form?

[tnwingtsun]

Sui.........


"tn i forgot to mention,pak mei is best to fight over w/c i would say.why?b/c its easier and quicker to work "ging lik" as to "lim lik",this is one of many reasons,but then again pak mei isn't the same as bak mei and dr wong knows this too."


From what I understand "Bai Mei" is the Manderian word for
"White Eyebrow"

"Bak Mei" and "Pak Mei" are Catonese words for "White Eyebrow"


"ging lik" as to "lim lik",translate this to english so I can follow what you're trying to say.

"pak mei lap shuiw and w/c chi sao is no comparison sooner or later it will turn to lap shuiw no doubt"

Please translate,my Chinese is very limited.



"tn
ppl come here for many reasons.yours is a plea to know where you stand in the martial arts world.is safe a keyword for you.one may see it as to post your si-fu and school,a baost and really to come of what may?i take no pleasure to baost who and where [personaly] i learn k.f.i think it defeats the purpose of who we are.
am i wrong to assume this possible way?in all honesty of course."

Sui,you are mistaken,I am not here to boast about my Sifus,lately
my first sifus name has been dragged through the dirt without merit.

My other Sifu/Wingtsun(Emin Bozstepe) has been dragged through the dirt for years,no problem there,I consider my Chinese father/teacher(Sifu) first and formost.
No pleas here.

Sui,I should have directed my comints("Boasts") toward the ppl responsible for the flaming posts,not aimed towards you,I've not seen you troll......Yet,read my post again,I'm not demanding that ppl list thier school or Sifus,only the ppl that stir up the $hit.


FT-WT does not roll chi-sao we penatrate.


atari-

"About the anouncing of school and sifu, maybe you should take a more relaxed stance about it. I know I did not put that in my profile, but some of us do not have a formal school and famous sifus. I myself learnt some Chu Gar from my grand father who learnt it from his village in China. There is no formal school and things are learnt in an adhoc manner. There is no strict tradition or the like, it was just like a past time in which you do it if you liked it. Its just like fathers teaching their son's how to kick a football."

I didn't know that my BM Sifu was famous until I had a work injury and found this forum a while back,I'm relaxed and thank you for the advice,my aim(see above) was to root out the trolls,
you nor Sui seem to be a troll,as a matter of fact I would like to thank you,Sui and FT for the advice and nice exchanges,a great change in a forum that sometimes gets discombobulated

[CLOUD ONE]

Hey Sui you have a fan you going soft in your old age.
Maybe if you get banned you could become 'Su' as a 'j.m' then you might get more fans

tn, don't you find that to start in w.c you learn the sensitivity then the power to attackas in bil jee?
Where as p.m the power is practiced in the beginning then the sensitvity in sip bat mor?

Why is it that triads would pick spm or p.m to learn and not w.c?

'too many chefs spoil the broth' This is a saying which holds true to M.A, too many sifu makes the student greedy and not take the first sifu a) seriously b) incomplete in his own training c) useless
Yet it is so common these days. Either have one or all as sifu.

Similarities between W.C and P.M they both use one body two arms and two legs.

[fiercest tiger]

Nice post bro!

TN,

I bet you like to penetrate?

[atari]

Sui,

Never claimed to be an expert or historian of chu gar or pak mei. Feel free to give your version.

How many forms? I don't know. Chu Gar is too vast to define how many forms. I never paid too much attention to forms, I practised more san sau. Some forms that I know includes jik bo, sarm bo jin, sarm jin yiu kiu, sarm moon, si moon luk hup, sip bart mor.

I gather you practise Pak Mei. How many forms have you?? What are some of your forms?

You have met me? WHere?

Also you say Pak Mei different from Bak Mei. Do you mean the chinese characters?

[Sui]

atari,i thought as much.mr original game console to play computer games you now need to up the level to ging lik,lim lik.but since you fell in that large hole you made for yourself,i now turn my back as you did with me.
p.s give robt aka rolling-hand a big hug from me while you down there.lol

cloud,lol man,as you can see had to turn over a new leaf and to run pure in my name.it seems you have too. nice posts on the w/c forum about TST[lim lik]care to explain it again to Tn so he may judge from what i say or you for that matter?

Tn you are not wrong just that your perspective has new light lets see if lim lik will unfold.or go to wing chun forum,the thread is........TST.also i think emin botez concentrates on speed body mechanics and not lim lik but i could be wrong.

[Sui]

f.t sorry i missed your post as i didn't think you were gonna respond.

i totally agree on ging lik lim lik.

and the chu ga well lets say is it long? p.s you know i'm not allowed to talk of them.i heard you can get VCD in ozz from china so why don't you by atari a copy.lol

[CLOUD ONE]

Hey f.T I bet you know what it's like to be penetrated

What's your real question to TN-' fancy a date mate'?

Only pulling your plonka!!!!



Now Now Sui- you won't win any popularity contests with poor old atari if you are not nicey nicey
Nah sui he can go to the mountain freely, but you have to be escorted In the light of the past bosting about siFu can go horribly wrong
But since TN has faith then what has been said will be forgotten in the winds of time.

[Sui]

well cloud,i don't know if you've read it only[specific]come from the TST line of w/c.hows that so?what i mean is aren't the w/c community trying to become unified within the world?

i know of lim lik and i don't train w/c,but i have felt it from another guy starting at chi sao then to lap shuiw and yes he does study w/c[but don't know is lineage].
his reaction of lap shuiw was an eye opener for him also his chi sao has found new meaning.i'm not sure if its better or worse?what do you think?have you heard of lap shuiw?

[CLOUD ONE]

Sui-''what i mean is aren't the w/c community trying to become unified within the world?''

Even kids, grandkids and greatgrandkids have fallouts, such is human nature to segregate rather than integrate


yes lap shuiw is more closer to the real deal although without chi sau what is lap shuiw?

Don't say that you know lim lik cause yuan fen will come on and say so does his sifu and so what about it?

[Sui]

cloud yes i understand you and yuan are lovers?just a joke don't report me please?

that nieve that chi sao is to result to lap sao?i begin at cross hands then lap,or is it that cross is chi sao?

ok i don't know it[lim lik]why are you worried what he dreams?agusting fong is his si-fu isn't it?why can't he know it[lim lik]for the sake of joining a conversation as good as that one?
i think a.fongs reach is to much for lim lik anyway but thats my opinion.