"Mcdojo.com"

[Shaolindynasty]

I was looking at this site so I decided to give my opinon here. At a first glance I was thinking to myself that this would be an interesting read to say the least. I thought the site was going to be good for distancing traditional martial arts from what we call "mcdojos". The first article I read was about a person realizing after 2 years of training and a black belt that he couldn't defend himself. The article was well written and covered the aspects that made his training ineffective, including no knowledge of forms application and lack of sparring to not being exposed to other "real" martial artists. My first impression of this site was a good one. I thought someone had finally come up with a good tool to use for both begginers and "experienced" practitioners to judge their training and find a school that teachers real traditional martial arts.

I was wrong.

Reading further into the site i realized that this first article was the exception to the entire site. The rest was for "practioners of MMA" to bash all traditional martial arts. What was happining was they essentially labeled all schools Mcdojo's that don't practice "grappling/groundfighting" as seen in the UFC. The majority of this site is just there to bash and make fun of traditional martial arts. One of the worst things i saw was on their forum where a traditional practitioner was trying to justify his school by telling them how they "somtimes practice BJJ". The problem is it is just the same kind of blabbering ignorant nonsense that pimple faced fat trolls like we see on here try to spread. What the web needs is a site that distigushes real fighting traditional arts from what we would call a mcdojo.

You can see the site here www.mcdojo.com

[Royal Dragon]

Why don't you do it? You have a good site, and the know how. It may be a worthy project for you and a service to the community.

[Akuma]

I did some looking around that forum and found this thread..this must be when they got the idea for it.

http://www.adcombat.com/ubbADCC_Foru...ML/005721.html

http://www.adcombat.com/ubbADCC_Foru...ML/005781.html

[SevenStar]

it's all in good fun. People have a right to say whatever they want...it's even martial way.com's site of the month. just take it for what it's worth.

[Shaolindynasty]

RD- I would but I'd need people to contribute I really would need first hand accounts. Then there is the time factor, I've been working and practiceing allot (not to mention when I open my first school within the next year). Also I am not sure if I'd like to known as the guy who insults everybody, it's fun on here to call people on there crap but I get tired of it pretty quick and probally wouldn't want to make it a permenant part of my life.

SS- I don't really take it seriously, the "review" I wrote was inspired by their site actually. They were really ignorant but their writing style (if you could call it that) reminded me of reading movie reviews in our local newspaper(sad isn't it) so I wrote a "review"

[SifuAbel]

People who think they are the living end. Or, others so embroiled in their fanaticism that they lose perspective. The first Mcdojo article was OK; because unfortunatly they do exist. Everything else was a giant self patting on the back. I'll wager only 5% of all those people are actually doing active training at a high level. The rest have a rather psychophantic tone. Pay per view warriors. You know, like the little weasel guy thats always hanging out with the tough boys, among them but not really of them.

Whatever, it doesn't amount to a hill of beans. I find it amusing how so many people will hide in the shadow of their favorite hero instead of putting themselves in front and say "here, me first". Its always ,"How long would you last against so and so(place hero here)?" Instead of, "How long would you last against me(average joe)." Some actually do(not to take away from those that walk the walk), but many don't because they know that in truth they might get creamed by (God forbid) a "traditionalist"(whatever the heck that means this week).

[Phrost]

Hey everyone, someone from MartialWay pointed me to this thread and I had to wait over the weekend for my account to be verified before I could respond.

For those of you that don't know, I'm the Owner/Admin of McDojo.com and I just wanted to point out a few things and maybe clear up some of the confusion.

The most important thing to remember about our site is that it's 100% user-based content. All registered users can post articles, pictures, links, downloads, whatever.

So if there's a MMA only slant over there, then it's because nobody else is representing their points of view on the "McDojo" theme/subject.

I'll admit, there are strong feelings on the subject on both sides of the coin (traditional vs. MMA). But there are only a handfull of people over there that represent traditional martial arts, and consequently there's no balance of opinion.

I myself come from a traditional martial arts background, having studied TKD/Karate informally as a kid, then Wushu and Wing Chun more recently in the past 5 years. I'm also a MMA fan and I'm training in Brazillian Jiujitsu and Muay Thai as well.

The problem of McDojos is one that the entire Martial Arts community faces. But what makes it even more tough to deal with is the fact that nobody wants to admit that their school is a McDojo, even if they've got 9 year old blackbelts, outrageous "membership" fees, a blackbelt "club" or fast-track program, etc.

That's why this site is needed so badly. The truth hurts, and until people stop exploiting Martial Arts for personal gain (monetary or otherwise), it's going to continue to be something we're all embarassed about. Every time someone with little skill is awarded a black belt he/she didn't earn, it waters down the quality of martial arts, lowers the value of the black belt, and slowly kills any credibilty of the art itself.

It's for this very reason that people have started to "pack up and move" away from traditional martial arts toward arts that have been demonstrated and proven to be effective, like Muay Thai, Sambo, Krav Maga, Brazillian Jiujitsu, Shootfighting, etc. For every myth sold to students of a McDojo about the greatness of the art they can "master within 2-3 years", there's videotape of a Karate black belt getting pummeled by a MMA fighter.

Simply put, if that's not a trend you want to see continue, then each and every one of you needs to do your part in stamping out complacency and a lack of standards in the martial arts themselves. Maybe it's just a reflection of our "instant gratification" culture that's keeping us from holding each other to a higher standard, or maybe it's just plain old personal gain.

Either way, unless it's dealt with, more and more people are going to move away from traditional arts towards something that's a bit more tangible to them.

I invite each of you to participate in the discussions that go on at McDojo's. I invite you to submit articles on the subject, and to help us achieve the goals that inspired us to create the site in the first place: to root out frauds and flakes in the Martial Arts so that being a black belt might still have some value.

Neal "Phrost" Fletcher
Lead Admin, www.McDojo.com

[Shaolindynasty]

Ok, now that's a reasonable reponse. I'm in, What kind of information could I contribute and how do I contribute it?

[Phrost]

Well the easiest way to contribute is to participate in the forum discussions. Be warned though, there are more than a few pro-MMA guys on the site that are pretty set in their opinions.

The best way is to write up an article on a McDojo you're familiar with, or pretty much anything with that theme. If you go to the Features-->Articles section you can click on "submit an article" and it'll get in the system. Once a moderator approves it, it'll go in as an article, people can rate and comment on it and everything. We'll even post it on the front page in a news blurb as well.

There are also links sections that you can submit suspected McDojos, and they can be rated 1-10 (10 being worst). There are also sections for legitimate schools, and misc. all of which can be submitted by users.

We even have an events calendar that users can update with events that might be happening around the country (world).

Play around with the site, there are a ton of things you can do.

Send me an email if you have any specific questions as well, I'd be glad to help.

Phrost
Lead Admin, McDojo.com

[Hau Tien]

Originally posted by Phrost
Well the easiest way to contribute is to participate in the forum discussions. Be warned though, there are more than a few pro-MMA guys on the site that are pretty set in their opinions.

Oh yeah... I'll get right on participating. Nothing I love more than wasting my time arguing with "pro-MMA guys who are set in their opinions."

Why would any traditional martial artist want to, when one of the head folks for the site warns you right off the start to expect someone to call you down for what you're going to post?

As polite and generally well written as your response was, I don't think I'll be signing up any time in the foreseeable future. Sounds like it'll appeal more to the "junior high mentality" martial artists.

[Shaolindynasty]

Actually even though that's what goes on allot on there now(like it doesnt here ) The way the site is set up reflects it's users. So if more "serious open minded" martial artists contribute it will change the attitude of the site.

[Phrost]

Originally posted by Hau Tien


Oh yeah... I'll get right on participating. Nothing I love more than wasting my time arguing with "pro-MMA guys who are set in their opinions."

Why would any traditional martial artist want to, when one of the head folks for the site warns you right off the start to expect someone to call you down for what you're going to post?

As polite and generally well written as your response was, I don't think I'll be signing up any time in the foreseeable future. Sounds like it'll appeal more to the "junior high mentality" martial artists.

That's the nature of the internet though. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Hey, I just felt it was fair warning so the more thin-skinned people wouldn't get upset and go into a tissy about things.

I'm not sure what you mean by "junior high martial artists" if you're talking about juvenile MMA fans, Sherdog.com's got the license on them anyway. Most of the original posters at McDojo's are from the Abu Dhabi Combat Club forums, of which the bulk of the posters actually train for fighting sports if not compete in them.

Just like Shaolin said, the more people that represent their opinions, the more balanced the site's presentation will be. If you don't want to sign up because the heat from the kitchen's too hot, that's fine. Nobody's going to give you any flak about it.

My point is simple though, the Martial Arts community should take the issue of McDojos, fradulent "masters" and scams in our arts very seriously, and this site was founded with the intention to be a place for this community to reflect on these issues and find ways of dealing with them.

If not you, then who?

[Brad]

Who cares if some BJJ guy thinks your art is useless? Will arguing on a message board prove him wrong or change his mind? Why should I care if some "traditionalist" I've never met thinks my wushu is only for dance and useless in a fight just because I use the term "wushu"? *sigh...* anyway I'm leaving KFO for quite awhile after tonight & tommorrow to concentrate more on my training, because reading coments like that does make me want to kick someone's ass when it really shouldn't bother me.

[Brad]

Just another thought... what qualifies as a McDojo? And why put a "most useless martial art" poll on a website?

[Hau Tien]

The idea behind the site is sound... I'm not disagreeing there. I just think it will have a ways to go before I'll enjoy participating in it, is all I'm saying.

Brad, that is what I mean exactly. I don't feel like sitting there trying to defend Chinese Martial Arts to anyone. And I don't think I should have to I'm not quite adolescent enough to enjoy fighting on the internet

I believe the pic that was floating around the net was accurate (If completely not "PC")... "Arguing on the Internet is like competing in the Special Olympics... even if you win, you're still retarded."

Just posting my own opinion... not saying anyone shouldn't sign up for that site and participate