"Mcdojo.com"

[LEGEND]

Holy ****...this site carries the EMIN vs. WILLIAM CHEUNG clip perfectly!!!

[Phrost]

Originally posted by BeiKongHui


keep saying it and maybe it'll come true.

I'm sorry are you an adult? I just find it hard to believe that someone with a life would take the time to create a site that detailed just in order to build a little self esteem at the expense of other people's idiocy.

If that's what you think of the reason why we started the site, then you're way off base.

My self-esteem has nothing to do with the time I spend on the internet, and everything to do with the fact that I've got a successful career as a project manager for an internet company, a near 6-figure salary, a beautiful fiancee that's Playboy material, good friends, great memories from serving my country as a SGT in the best **** Army in the world, and a life that makes me happy. All of which, with 3 years to go until my 30th birthday.

Since this thread has become less about Emin Boztepe attacking an old man, and more about individual feelings, tell me: how do you feel about your mother?

[LEGEND]

First off WC master won't spar or fight you! I have rarely seen any WC masters fight in FULL CONTACT tourneys. I have seen their students fight in SAN SHOU in B More a few times. I have trained with WILLIAM CHEUNG association in B More. Great technical theoritical stuff...pretty neat! But it's obvious to anyone that once that has trained against resisting opponents that once WILLIAM and EMIN got CLINCHED...there's not much striking( except knees ) that could be done! And yes...EMIN swept WILLIAM from the footage...I didn't see much of any BIL SAO as WILLIAM claim to be blocking...doesn't matter since I don't think u can get hurt much from inaccurate punching! The fact is...they ended up CLINCHING and the one with WRESTLING/JUDO experience took the other down and proceeded to Ground and Pound! This has nothing to do with WING CHUN is ineffective cause it already bypass that range of fighting( punch, kick, trap )...wonder now why BRUCE LEE took grappling lessons with GENE LEBEL and WALLY JAY???

[SifuAbel]

I'm glad to see everything is so Rosy for you phrost. With all that going for you, why are you here whining like a redheaded step child about every little foible and stupidity on the internet? Could it be to promote your web site and sell tshirts and advertising, you flaming fraud.

[chokeyouout]

Third grade schoolyard altercation at best at best.

Some much for "Master" status.

Let me guess, if either had been attacked by multiple opponets on a glass laden surface they would of chi'd each other to oblivion.

Reality sucks

What would have happened if that would of been Royce a few years ago when supposedly emin challenged him.

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[Ryu]

I posted that clip a few months ago and everyone got mad at me!


Well as far as the discussion.... I'm not sure what to say because it's all been said so much in the past.

First though.......
""If you're a martial artist, and you consider yourself good at fighting, then step in the ring/octagon/whatever, and prove your skill."

I train a mixture of JKD, Muay Thai, BJJ, and judo. You can probably consider me a MMA practitioner but I honestly don't like ring competition. It is not because I am scared, or think I am "too deadly" or other such nonsense, but my personality is rather reserved, and I don't like the large crowds, big atmosphere, lights, bikini girls, etc. Simply put "it ain't me."
I still train with the best martial artists I can (people like Paul Vunak, Carlos Machado, Vince Tamura, etc.) I enjoy rolling with people better than me who can twist me in a pretzel whenever they like. I also enjoy being able to "win" and tap people out in full contact sparring with gear and the whole nine yards.
Any time I have a "theory" about something that deals with martial arts I test it in full resistence sparring. It's the only way for me to be honest with myself.
BUT... I don't compete. I don't want to. I'm not stupid however, I don't believe I could walk into the ring today and beat a seasoned pro at the sport. But I do consider myself able to handle things in real life, and have done so numerous times with the arts I study.
I think it is unfair and actually quite mistake to claim everyone who doesn't compete believes in mystical fighters, chi flames from their fingers, OR is a fraud who can't fight for real.

Please keep in mind that not all people have the same drives or interests. Some people really do not compete because they simply "aren't interested." There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, and to claim they all must fight professionally or they're cowards is not only bullyish, but ignorant.

Anyway, I don't know if that was what you were saying exactly. If it wasn't, I apologize for coming on so strong, however I enjoy MMA very much, and I watch it and train it as much as I can. I have been involved with BJJ for about 4-5 years now, 2 of those years in respected BJJ schools and judo schools. I think I can take care of myself. I've done so before. But I don't LIKE competing in front of crowds. I like doing it by myself.

As far as some of you others who keep claiming that grappling on the street HAS to mean rolling around in guard for 10 minutes working on submissions........... sigh... A "street grappler" will slam a person onto the concrete, mount him or stand over him, or crush his knee into their chests and pummel with headbutts, elbows, fists, palms, knees, and feet.
"Ground and pound" is also a "submission"
Grappling is NOT just rolling around in guard looking for submissions. Grapplers can eye gouge, bite, pull knives and stab on the ground, etc. In fact some train to do it ......... I do.

I'm not defending either side here...... I'm just tired of the same old argument over and over again.

Not all traditional artists are weaklings who believe in fireballs out of their asses. Many are very strong, well experienced, individuals who have found out how to make their skills work in real situations.

MMA are not delusional neanderthals who don't know how to fight in the "street." MMA and NHB people can be DEADLY in the street.... to think otherwise is borderline foolish.

Everyone quit the dumb argument already.....


Ryu

[jimmy23]

"No, the most basic wrestler would NOT be able to neutralize him in the first place"

a half way decent wrestler would have dropped his weight while in Emins clinch, and pushed his hips back, leaving himself less susceptable to the little sweep that emin used to ground the fight

[diego]

Originally posted by NorthernMantis
I just saw the video and all I gotta say is that Emin is a punk. I can't beleive no one did anything about it. Weren't there any of William Cheung's students there too? If someone jumped my sifu like that I would have picked up the nearest thing and whacked him with it. I wouldn't care if I was outnumbered or what . I'd rather get knocked out and a busted lip than seeing my sifu get jumped from behind.

nm the wc/wc camp says emb came with 10-20 guys?, they surrounded wc in a circle and wc was informed they had bulges sticking out they coats. he said he didnt think they had guns but knives and such; and they said someone said if wc beat em they were gonna jump wc!. wc says he was in germany for the weekend teaching a seminar and didnt have a business license so he didnt want to fight or the authoritys could screw him mega.

if its true you could see how wc did nothing in his defense plus the whole slippery slippers issue!?!.

thats all from the net so, So.

[Phrost]

Originally posted by SifuAbel
I'm glad to see everything is so Rosy for you phrost. With all that going for you, why are you here whining like a redheaded step child about every little foible and stupidity on the internet? Could it be to promote your web site and sell tshirts and advertising, you flaming fraud.

What am I being a fraud about?

I'm here to promote the website.

Yeah, it takes a f*cking rocket scientist to figure that one out.

Do you want a cookie or something to make you feel special for getting that?

Selling T-shirts? Hmm, well personally I think they're pretty cool, but if I sold 10 a day I still wouldn't make up the cost of running the website (which comes out of my pocket) so I don't know what point you have here.

Dude, you're a class A douche bag keyboard warrior.

But I'm not going to let you derail the thread so, have a nice day.

Dipsh|t.

[fightfan]

Phrost, dont let Abel get to you man.
He got challenged to a cage fight by Knifefighter (a fellow MMA'ist) on this forum and backed down like a little beeeatch.
He's just pretending to have a pair safely behind his keyboard but everyone saw his true colors long ago.
LOFL!!!

[SSgungfu]

This video in general is very sad. Has it come down to a respected Grandmaster rolling around with Emin, who as far as I'm concerned is a German-thug that has a MA background.

I don't doubt William could have put a chop to his neck to end his days in this world, but what example would that have set? How would that reflect on the students of WC everywhere? I think William took a blow to the ego, and thats about it. Rolling around with a joke such as Emin and quote "losing" is far better then going to jail for killing his worthless ass with your honored kung fu skills.

If Emin wanted to prove his martial arts ability, he should have challened him in a proper manner. Face to face, not an attack with your friends surrounding an old man. **** that guy.

[Mr Punch]

When you kids have finished the slanging match...

Saw this vid a while back and it's too poor quality to actually see wtf's going on, so anyone who wants to judge a whole style on this, without sparring/fighting against anyone halfway decent from that style... is full of ****.

You may believe there IS no-one halfway decent from that style: that's up to you and your ignorance.

I suspect Cheung is pretty good at what he does; I've never trained with him so I'm not going to make any judgement.

I will say he does wingchun which seems to be have varied a lot from what he was taught: variation may be improvement, it may not be. His style is a large-scale commercial style, and as such may be watered down a little in some ways. If you want to find out: go practise with him or one of his higher ranked students.

Boztepe is a lot of mouth; but again he is good at what he does... which again is varying considerably from some of the more traditional wingchun.

MAFanatic. Interesting points. But do you really believe that the guys in that black belt kyoukushinkai contest were representative of WC? There was a vid posted on the WC board a while back of the same guy doing his forms before the 'fight'. He sucked like an 8-9 month newbie. It doesn't look like the guys you fought were much use either . Doesn't mean they were representative.

Internal Boxer. 'even.. blah blah... would would would...'. Good analysis based on fact? Whatever

Phrost. Congratulations on your salary, your Playboy-'esque' gf (does that mean she's a ho? ) and your history with women. I can see where the ****head flame warriors on your site get their argumentative prowess. Next time you have something relevant to say (and you've proved that you do sometimes) please come back to the board.

[Mr Punch]

Approximately jack.

But here goes:

1) As KC said: WC groundfighting and grappling is non-existant for many lineages;

2) Situational problems can and often do come up, as may have been the case here;

3) So-called masters can (and may have had here) bad days.

4) Wingchun sucks

If you watch a lot of NHB type fights (and I have) they often look messy and lacking in style. So no, Rogue, I didn't see (m)any WC principles in this mess, but I have seen (just one eg off the top of my head) a good Muay Thai guy get a shin kick in his eye from a good BJJer. He responded by doing what looked like a BJJ throw. So what?

No, I haven't seen any WC fighters in the ring.

No, I haven't seen any vids of it in action.

I have seen and unfortunately participated many real-life altercations (before I started WC) and have been forced to use (the tremendously inneffective ) aikido and karate in them. What I did almost certainly didn't look like aiki or karate. So I could say I believe, on this experience that WC offers some solutions to self-defence situations.

Is it useful in MMA ring/cage fights? I don't give a ****!!!

[BrentCarey]

I have to mostly agree with Mat (and others). Contrary to what you see in the movies, when two people are engaged in combat, stuff happens. You train to improve your odds, but things still happen that are beyond your control. Even the greatest masters are fallible.

All this video shows is a few seconds of a presumably longer combat where it is not going well for either combatant, but one happens to be larger and on top. I have seen nothing to lead me to believe the people in the video are who they are reported to be. In fact, all indications from the video (poor as it is) suggest to me that the people are very likely two other people.

The complete confrontation may have gone quite differently from what we see in this snippet.

Another point - Even if this was Mr. Cheung, what difference does it make. Is someone planning on hiring him as a body guard? No? Then why do we care? It is odd to me that the martial arts community holds its instructors to such standards. If you want to know how good an instructor is, look at his students. If you want to know how good Mr. Cheung is, look at the instructors he has taught and their students.

Look at coaches from other sports - football, baseball, figure skating, gymnastics, etc. Are they great athletes as a rule? No, but they train great athletes. These sports recognize that excellence comes from within the individual. Why can't the martial arts community stop living in a fantasy world, believing that excellence comes from some omnipotent master or deadly style?

In fact, in my experience, many of the greatest martial artists I have seen would make terrible instructors, and some of the best instructors were mediocre martial artists. These two skills are not mutually inclusive. It is possible to have both, but it is certainly not guaranteed.

Best regards,

Brent Carey

[SifuAbel]

First off when i fight someone is up to me and no one else. say what you want I could care less.

Phrosty , am I getting on your nerves? Good. Do sumpin' about it. Armchair or not there aint a darn thing you can say that will get me off your back. Mcdojo indeed, how high and mighty we are.
admit it, You don't give a crap about that mcdojo stuff. This is just another internet web money machine for you. Mcdojo .com IS a mcdojo by your own definition.

You're not going to advertise on your site? Man, I thought FFAb was bad but buddy boy here is just off the hook trying to get signups.

I can see it all now. You in your internet company thinking "hey, lets start a web site that is specifically for people to diss other arts, being that they do this anyway, and make money for content already rehashed a million times on other sites. Good show, brilliant. praying on peoples urge to gripe and moan as the main theme. man!, you are good. And people filling their self importance thinking that they will actually make a difference. I applaude you sir. You make the devil feel like an amateur.