Gaun sao - Cultivating hand

[kj]

Originally posted by yuanfen
But for wing chun depth -the understanding of the feel of the motion and conveying it is the important thing. Thats why IMO its more important to pay close attention in detail to the actual teaching by masters of the art .
They work on capturing the correct motions rather than only literary meanings. Language helps with verbal communication but the guidance of the hand is the key ...

Amen, Yuanfen. Your post is on target.
- kj

[reneritchie]

You need both a skilled teacher and a good text, each to check and balance the other. A deep word with no guidence is as problematic as masterful guidence in the wrong direction. In WCK, we're lucky to have some wisdom from the past and experience of the present to help ensure our future.

As with many things, if they're useful to you in your current place along the path, enjoy and prosper. If you're not there yet, or have long since past them by, no need to fret.

RR

[kj]

Originally posted by reneritchie
You need both a skilled teacher and a good text, each to check and balance the other. A deep word with no guidence is as problematic as masterful guidence in the wrong direction. In WCK, we're lucky to have some wisdom from the past and experience of the present to help ensure our future.

As with many things, if they're useful to you in your current place along the path, enjoy and prosper. If you're not there yet, or have long since past them by, no need to fret.

RR

I agree with this too.

For many native Cantonese speakers, the terms seem to serve well enough to initiate the idea of a thing. However, it seems that application, refinement and clarification of the ideas still requires interaction, demonstration and/or touch. For someone like me, the terms tend to clarify and deepen my understanding after obtaining a degree of comprehension through other means - such as observation, dialog, and tactile and kinesthetic senses.

Generally, and not unlike the kuen kuits or proverbs, terms alone appear to be insufficient to ensure complete and accurate comprehension, regardless of native language. For most mere mortals at least.

The language link is both valuable and fun, regardless of chicken or egg first.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[TjD]

when i think of a cultivating gaun sau, i think of the first gaun sau in the wooden dummy form (at least in the way i've learned it )

we do a palm strike with the outside arm, with a tan sau with the inside arm, combined with a step; afterwards we retreat the inside leg backwards (ala chum kiu), rotating the body around with a gaun sau (gaun with arm that was doing tan, tan with arm that was doing palm strike)

this draws the dummy outwards, as it could draw someones kick or strike, causing them to overcommit "cultivating" that energy

i think this is "cultivating" your opponents energy for your own use, drawing them somewhere with your gaun sau, leading them off balance

its my personal opinion that using the gaun sau in this manner is more of a "soft" approach to gaun sau, where as one can also use a gaun sau to cut into someones centerline aggressively, and attack their root, which would a more "hard" use of it

these are just two ends of the spectrum; and in real application sometimes a blend between the hard and soft is the most optimum


travis

[Mr Punch]

Soooorrry!

I was trying to be quick and diplomatic. What I should have said was:

I've done lots of farm work. ...so...

I don't think ploughing is a good analogy for gaun sau.

I think cutting/sweeping is better. Hence thinking tool analogies would be better: as an extension of an arm movement to cause some kind of physical effect, as opposed to an action analogy... pretty pointless when it is difficult enough trying to describe the original action in the first place.

That's why I don't use the ploughing analogy.

In fact, I don't usually use analogies at all: I use actions, and one or two word descriptions in a different language which I don't understand that are sometimes valuable, and sometimes only worth pursuing as a historical exercise, or on a surface level.

Is that better?

Now I've just repeated what everyone else has said, and that which I believed in the first place!

Other than that please see Yuanfen's first post on this subject, and my statement that I could think of three low/middle gauns I use regularly (this has since gone up to five, with slightly differnet energies)!

So much for diplomacy: STOP ANALOGISING!

[Mr Punch]

Nice idea. First time I've heard it. have to give that some 'thought' (practice!).

[TjD]

thats the funny thing about wing chun, there are so many tools, and you can use them in so many different ways

the wooden dummy form is probably my current favorite to practice, because it shows me different uses of the same tools; the "hard", the "soft", and sometimes a blend

chi sau lets me use the appropriate hard or soft or blend


while i've never farmed, perhaps the "cultivating" of an other persons energy is more in line with the farming, because in a sense your drawing something out, helping your opponent along so to speak

however, like i said i know nothing about farming what i do know is that i can use gaun sau like this, and its effective and also that when my sifu talks about a cultivating gaun sau, and i do this, he doesnt scowl... however that probably just means im improving, rather than i've gotten it right

[Neo]

I posted this on Saturday I think and its great to come on to my PC on a Monday morning and see so many informative replies - A big thanks to all that posted - I have to agree, Im not usually one to get too involved with the history and language, but as kj says, it can be enjoyable to digger a bit deeper especially when sometimes the waters arent clear.

Now, moving on to lan sau....

[yuanfen]

Neo- your turn--
how does EBMAS understand lan?

[Phil Redmond]

A plow pushes in a forward motion, hench "Plow Hand". Some WC practitioners use a Gan Sao to the side as in a Karate downward block. I think it would be hard to "Plow" a field to the side.

[mun hung]

cantonese

gong means plow.

gong-teen - means farm

gong-teen lo - means farmer