"Continuous Sparring"

[MonkeySlap Too]

I am oppossed to ALL point sparring. Point sparring by it's very nature makes the activity non-martial. Sort of an aggressive game of tag. By making it a game of tap-tap - you change the dynamics of the situation - the energy, the distance, the timing to the point where it builds habits that are good for 'point fighting', but are very bad for actual fighting. Froim the Shuai Chiao doctrine, you spending a lot of time and energy in a place where the fight isn't happening.

Since I don't fight 'points', I don't play 'point' fighting.

I suppose it could be used for absolute beginners as a confidence building drill...

[MonkeySlap Too]

RD said: Unless you knock me out. I'm going to keep going.

Reply: Not true. I could throw you - taking away your physicval ability or desire to fight, I can damage your weapons to the point you no longer desire to fight, I can submit you with Qin Na, I could choke you out, etc..etc..

Not all of these are good for free fighting practice. But without power, without throws, without the energy created by allowing more of what you find in a real fight, you create an artificial construct that builds bads habits.

It's not a choice between one-point or continuos point. It's a matter of opening up the rules to allow a more well rounded practice.

Make sense? Realize I am talking from the point of view of my objectives - which is to be able to fight, not compete in point games. The doctrine that evolves from this is built on developing certain skills and attributes. Skills and attributes that are not developed by point sparring - of any kind.

I could be seen as splitting hairs - but to me they are important hairs

[fa_jing]

OK, it's "Chicago Kung Fu Championships" sponsored by T.C.M.A.C. I've been to the venue before, it's a little small and there are no bleachers. Action could be alot, or could be a little. I'm going anyway because my Sifu asked me to and my kwoon is a sponsor of the event. "full Cage mask for continuous sparring" That sucks.

About the belt thing, we don't use them so I was just making a joke. You're supposed to have 5 years of experience to fight in the Black Belt division, and it's the only division to offer continuous sparring. If I add all my study together, over the last 15 years, I think I might scrape up against that number. I am not willing to do straight-up point sparring, it's too far from what we do know.

I did some point sparring many years ago, I'd say that point sparring is better than no sparring, albeit not by much. I think that the sparring we did in TKD class would be similar to "continuous sparring, " we pulled our head punches, restricted target area, etc.

Yeah, it's just a sport, and not even the most fun. Example: our last (full-contact) sparring session, I could see (and feel) that it is not good to trade a jab for an overhand right. But in the "points" scenario, these are two equal creatures. Not to mention that I like to kick low. Still, I think I'll do alright based on my previous TKD experience, which followed similar rules. I don't know about this Cage-mask thing, though, doesn't that mess up your peripheral vision?

-FJ

[MonkeySlap Too]

Fa Jing said: I don't know about this Cage-mask thing, though, doesn't that mess up your peripheral vision?


Reply: Some do, I've found it to be tolerable. The cage serves to limit blood splashes and keep down the possiblity of transmitting blood borne pathogens. It limits giving someone an intintial mess-up shot, but hey, it is just sparring.

The mask can be better in competition than boxing head gear because boxing head gear can get pushed across your face by an overhand slap and cover your eyes. The face cage headgear tends to stay on.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by MonkeySlap Too
I am oppossed to ALL point sparring. Point sparring by it's very nature makes the activity non-martial. Sort of an aggressive game of tag. By making it a game of tap-tap - you change the dynamics of the situation - the energy, the distance, the timing to the point where it builds habits that are good for 'point fighting', but are very bad for actual fighting. Froim the Shuai Chiao doctrine, you spending a lot of time and energy in a place where the fight isn't happening.

Since I don't fight 'points', I don't play 'point' fighting.

I suppose it could be used for absolute beginners as a confidence building drill...

yeah, what the bastard said. There are alot of strategies seen and encouraged in point fighting that leave you open to get drilled if it were actual contact. Considering you fight how you train, the same habits will manifest themselves, and guess what? you get drilled. you may also get into the habit of pulling punches, and kicking high frquently, as you get more points for a kick. most tournies give 2 points for a kick, and some give 3 for a head kick.

[Water Dragon]

I'll make 3. My main reason is that point sparring promotes too much of an in-out in-out strategy. My school, at least, emphasises an in-in-in-take-em out strategy.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by MonkeySlap Too

I think you are confused about what continuos sparring is - a boxer would do well UNTIL he got disqualified for excessive contact!

I've had points taken away for excessive contact. out of habit, I threw a right to his face. I caught him square in the nose and buckled his legs. in that same match, I threw kicks that looked like they landed to hard. I got penalized. but when I got hit in the nads by a different guy, they counted it, saying he hit me in the stomach....I hate point fighting

[TaoBoy]

SevenStar wrote:

but when I got hit in the nads by a different guy, they counted it, saying he hit me in the stomach

Just another reason that point fighting sucks. It's all perspective. The judges have to have a clear understanding of all competing styles and then they have to use their eyes.

I've witnessed CMA students fighting against predominantly Karate styles that were judged by Karate instructors. These judges didn't recognise any valid techniques that they didn't understand. So, needless to say when Karate guy threw a reverse punch at CMA guy and CMA guy clocked him on the head with another strike - Karate guy scored. I just shook my head.

[rogue]

Sevenstar, you sound like the perfect pointer. I've seen more knockouts during point sparring than full contact kickboxing matches. This was during the late seventies before everyone started using Jhoon Rhees gear and before every tournie had a lawyer lurking in the stands. Thems was the days!

[SevenStar]

too bad it's not like that now

[HongKongPhooey]

I'm with royal dragon on this one

[fa_jing]

Guess what? The rules are going to be completely different than I imagined. They are going to allow low kicks and up to 3 takedowns in the 2 minute time frame. Don't know if you can receive any points for these. "Medium contact," I was told. The action is to take place on a padded surface. Man I am excited! This is going to be my first tournament in a long time. I pity the fool that has to be my first opponent. I know I'm going to get f'd up too, but I'm going to do my best to win this thing.
I'm fighting in the Black belt division. It should be near the end of the tournament, around 3 pm or later. I'm also going to participate in forms.

I just want to flow tomorrow. I've been doing sparring lately so I am prepared.

-FJ

[rogue]

Good luck fa jing, make sure you bring back all the details of the fights. Careful of the moderate contact rule, everybody has a different idea of "moderate". Also do you have to strike the person right after the takedown? Can they strike from the ground?

[fa_jing]

I'm sure there's no groundfighting, I can't imagine. Maybe there is a rulle like the one you're talking about, I'll get the final scoop tomorrow morning, we are meeting early at my kwoon to discuss rules, strategy, equipment, etc. They are permitting chest protectors but I won't be wearing one. It's going to be cage-mask headgear and we apparently can wear MMA gloves that have padding. So grabbing is in. I hear no knees and no elbows, that's too bad 'cause my knees are fierce. I will go hard, but I don't want to hurt anybody (maybe shake 'em up a little) and hopefuly they'll give me the same respect. I'm watching out for my groin because I've been in tournaments before and I know the deal. Accidents and fouls happen. We may be capturing the action on film, BTW, so hopefully you all will at least get to see some pics. I'll work on it.

[Shaolindynasty]

fajing- Who is your sifu? where is your school?

is this a kungfu tournament or an open martial arts tournament?