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Thread: OT: US planning to recruit one in 24 Americans as citizen spies

  1. #61
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
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    6,515
    Rogue,
    I hope I haven't offended you here, and if I bordered on flippancy at any point, it was not out of complacency, but more just my posting style. I'm sure you already know that.

    In addition, I like debating these things with you because you tend to be well informed and have, on several occasions, changed my viewpoint on issues that I was very hardline on, which is good. Although I tend towards liberal, I don't believe in discounting all things conservative just because they come from "the other camp", and people like you are generally the ones that make me aware of issues that I am too marginalized on.

    To me, WTC1 and WTC2 both changed certain things. I am not so sure that WTC1 could have been done again. In six elbows(and I'm assuming that other systems use this principle) there is a principle called "pluggin the hole". Plugging the hole means that, if you find an opening in the opponent's defenses, say the face, you attack there until you either open a more desirable target, or until the moment that the opponent seeks to cover that hole. IMO, the two WTC attacks are similar. We were hit there one way, we worked on defenses against that, and then were attacked in a different way at the same spot, a way in which we had not developed defenses. Now, the varieties of ways such attacks can come is not unlimited. The payload must be delivered, the payload must be pretty large, so that limits delivery to non-portable methods, i.e. planes, vans, missiles, etc.

    We've covered planes and vans, or are in the process of doing so. Missiles are an example of an issue I've totally changed position on, as I used to be against the whole missile defense thing, whereas now I think it is an excellent idea, and people like you are the reason for that.

    Also, we've taken the offensive. It's my opinion that it would be more effective to win this war, and make great efforts to undermine the causes of support for these terrorist organizations that operate against the US. However, and this is where we would probably disagree, doing so would probably involve giving up some power in various regions, and supporting autonomy in our allies. This may seem naive, and it may be so, but I can only really speak from where I am at right now and where I've been.

    To me, the greatness of america is in no relation to its status as an empire, the size of its holdings, or the affluence of its people, but in direct relation to its tenacious belief in freedom, and I think TIPS is a step backward and away from the important principles of the US character. And so, this issue is important to me as well, but not for the same reasons as you. Your emphasis on defense is valid, and I feel my emphasis on our culture is equally valid.

  2. #62
    Join Date
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    Hartford Vt U.S.A.
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    Smile

    Well said Brother.
    " Better to be a warrior in the garden than a gardner at war."
    "Ni hao darlins!" - wujidude
    "I just believe that qi is real and good body mechanics have been masquerading as internal power for too long." - omarthefish

  3. #63
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    B-more MD
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    I lifted this post from another message board… this is the type of person I don’t want to see spying on me… and I'm sure he not the only person that thinks this way…
    I want to call some of you that thought I was wrong in wanting to profile people with mohamed in their names. After the attack in LA does it look silly now? When a guy named mohamed kills your family do not say I did not warn you.

  4. #64
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    Jan 1970
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    Hartford Vt U.S.A.
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    Wink

    I'm keeping a sharp eye out for all the Timothys.
    " Better to be a warrior in the garden than a gardner at war."
    "Ni hao darlins!" - wujidude
    "I just believe that qi is real and good body mechanics have been masquerading as internal power for too long." - omarthefish

  5. #65
    Thanks for the complement and don't worry KC I've a thick skin and nothing you guys have said offended me and anyway I believe it's healthy to have ones ideas challenged. Anyway many times it's me who's using the big hammer to beat on people. I've never understood people who get angry during a debate.

    In all honesty having to have things like TIPS, screening at airports and video cameras all over the place bothers me, I also believe that they could be abused. Though I believe the Democrats tend to abuse these kind of things to further their agenda more than the Republicans who have spines like jelly fish.
    We are on the offensive but most of the offensive squad was let go. Back during the Clinton years his team let go many of the hunters that we had, at a minimum we're about two years out from replacing them. Airline security is still a joke as the majority of luggage is not checked for explosives. Also some of the religious terrorist groups are of major league calibre. They're smart, patient and have cash and followers willing to die to further their cause.

    You just have to engage your brain when listening to or reading their reports to see the inconsistencies, contradictions, and outright lies. Connect the dots between their own accounts and you'll come up with a pretty ugly picture.
    That's the problem with news reporting, they have to report something even if it's rumour to keep the viewers watching. There's a guy called Captain Janks that when a tragedy happens calls the network newsrooms as an expert or someone on the scene and actually gets on the air. He'll say some incredibly obvious stuff but the news anchors will go along with him for quite awhile. Also to use the WTC, the news reported the first plane in was an accident (though it obviously wasn't), the original reported body count was 20,000, there were reports of a fireman surviving an 80 story or foot drop and other nonsense. At OKC when people were reporting finding bombs it was more a case of "rather be safe than sorry" as very few of the rescuers could tell the difference between a bomb and the insides of a PC. Anyway if they did find a UXB in that rubble it was composed of some overly stable material to survive that blast. What seems like "inconsistencies, contradictions, and outright lies" are usually based upon news people not having all of the facts, on scene personell misreading the situation or stupidity by the so-called experts. Connecting the dots without the little numbers is a hit or miss proposition at best.
    Last edited by rogue; 07-19-2002 at 07:45 AM.
    I quit after getting my first black belt because the school I was a part of was in the process of lowering their standards A painfully honest KC Elbows

    The crap that many schools do is not the crap I was taught or train in or teach.

    Dam nit... it made sense when it was running through my head.

    DM


    People love Iron Crotch. They can't get enough Iron Crotch. We all ride the Iron Crotch for the exposure. Gene

    Find the safety flaw in the training. Rory Miller.

  6. #66
    Join Date
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    ttt 4 2016!

    I'm poaching this here 14-year-old thread for some spy news.

    G20 'honey trap' warning: Fears Prime Minister's officials will be seduced by Chinese spies and have hotel rooms bugged


    Theresa May, whose officials have been warned to be wary of Chinese female attention during the G20 summit CREDIT: PA
    Tim Ross
    3 SEPTEMBER 2016 • 2:21PM

    Theresa May’s officials have been warned to avoid “honey traps” amid fears that the Prime Minister's team will be targeted by Chinese spies offering sex during the G20 summit.

    British government aides have fallen victim to spying on previous official trips to China, with one Downing Street official reported to have had his mobile phone and secret documents stolen after he was seduced.

    Government security chiefs are anxious to avoid a repeat of the incident, which took place during a visit by Gordon Brown in 2008, and have provided detailed guidance to Mrs May’s team.

    The Prime Minister’s officials have been warned to take steps to protect themselves during the G20 summit, which begins on Sunday.

    Officials travelling with Mrs May have been issued with temporary mobile phones and email addresses in an attempt to evade Chinese state hackers.

    Security advisers are also warning staff not to keep gifts they receive and to be particularly wary of electronic devices, such as free computer memory sticks, mobile phone SIM cards or chargers which they are offered by their Chinese hosts.


    Barack Obama and Chinese president Xi Jinping in Hangzhou, after formally joining the Paris Climate deal at the G20 summit on Saturday CREDIT: AFP/GETTY

    One Whitehall source said security chiefs had warned them that hotel rooms used during the summit were likely to be bugged. “We have been told that if you feel uncomfortable about people seeing you naked, you should get changed under your bedclothes,” the source said.

    British security agencies regard China as one of the most aggressive nations when it comes to launching cyber-attacks against western governments and businesses, as well as posing a major espionage threat to the UK.

    Chinese technological expertise has prompted security concerns at the highest levels of government and British intelligence.

    There are fears that Chinese intelligence agents will use their capability to intercept emails and phone calls and to install spy software on computers during the summit.


    Hangzhou, the host city for this weekend's G20 Summit

    However, one of the gravest threats posed by foreign spies is also one of the oldest: the honey trap.

    During Mr Brown’s visit to China in 2008, one of the No 10 officials accompanying the then Prime Minister reportedly fell prey to a “beautiful” female Chinese spy. She went back to his hotel room, drugged him, stole his mobile phone and documents from his briefcase.

    The incident was described by Mr Brown’s former spin doctor, Damien McBride, in his 2013 memoir, Power Trip.


    Damian McBride, left, was then prime minister Gordon Brown's special advisor CREDIT: BRUCE ADAMS/REX

    The No 10 team was “accosted on one side by a beautiful posse of Chinese girls and on the other side by an equivalent group of Russian blondes”, Mr McBride said.

    He wrote:
    Even before our resident security expert could warn us that their interest was not to be taken at face value, we looked up and saw one of our number disappearing up the stairs to the exit with one of the girls, beaming back at us.

    He woke up the following morning "minus his Blackberry and half the contents of his briefcase".

    The official also had a "‘very bad headache, owning to the Mickey Finn nightcap his overnight companion had administered to him in his hotel room".
    The G20 summit in Hangzhou comes at a time of heightened tension between Britain and China. Within weeks of entering Downing Street in July, Mrs May put on hold a final decision on whether to approve a Chinese-backed new nuclear power station at Hinkley Point in Somerset.

    Members of the US delegation check parts of the runway before the arrival of President Barack Obama at the Hangzhou airport CREDIT: ROLEX DE LA PENA/EPA

    Her aides made it clear that she was concerned about the potential risks to British national security of allowing China to take such a major role in running a critical nuclear energy plant.

    Mrs May’s chief of staff, Nick Timothy, warned before taking up his No 10 role that the Hinkley project could allow China to shut down energy production “at will”.

    He said that MI5 believed Chinese intelligence services were working “against British interests at home and abroad”.

    Shortly after Mrs May’s decision to delay the Hinkley plan, the Chinese ambassador in London warned that blocking the £18 billion project would put Britain’s future relationship with China in doubt.

    Mrs May is due to have her first face-to-face meeting with the Xi Jinping, the Chinese president, at the end of the G20 summit on Monday.
    FAQ | G20
    What is it? The G20 is made up of the world's leading industrialised and emerging economies. The Group of 20 accounts for 85 per cent of world GDP and two-thirds of its population. Much of the important business takes place on the sidelines and in informal meetings.

    Which countries are in the G20? UK, US, Canada, Mexico, Germany, France, Italy. Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Australia, South Africa, South Korea, Japan, China, India, Brazil, Argentina and Russia are also part of the club. A representative from the EU is involved too.

    Why isn't every country invited? Because it becomes more difficult to make decisions.

    When did Britain last host a summit? 2009 when Gordon Brown was Prime Minister.

    When did the meetings start? The first G20 summit of world leaders was held in Washington in 2008 hosted by President George W. Bush when countries coordinated a response to the global financial meltdown.

    Is it effective? It has a mixed record. Many believe its failure to deliver on many past pledges raises questions about the credibility of future promises.
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

  7. #67

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by GeneChing View Post
    I'm poaching this here 14-year-old thread for some spy news. (G20 in China )
    There was a mini-War upon Obama's arrival. I wonder how much the MSM news reported on this? I don't usually browse the MSM news.


    Chinese Officials, White House Staff Screaming on Tarmac Mar Obama’s G-20 Arrival

    A member of the Chinese delegation was screaming at White House staff from the moment pool got onto the tarmac. He wanted he US press to leave. The Chinese had put up a blue rope under the wing so pool had to stand behind it. This man was demanding the pool, which was behind the blue rope, get away from the arrival scene altogether. At one point a White House official told him this was our president and our plane and the press wasn’t moving.

    ....

    Lee wrote this assertion by the White House staffer did not go down well: “The man yelled, ‘This is our country.” He yelled at another White House official and got testy with Susan Rice and Ben Rhodes, seeming to try to block them from walking closer to the arrival scene after they lifted the blue rope and walked to the other side of it, nearer to POTUS.”
    ...

    “The president is arriving here in an hour,” one White House staffer was overheard saying in exasperation.
    As the disagreement escalated, a Chinese official assisting the Americans grew angered by how guards were treating the White House staff and began yelling, nearly coming to blows with one of the Chinese security officials.
    “You don’t push people. No one gave you the right to touch or push anyone around,” he yelled in Chinese at one of the Chinese security officials. Another Chinese official trying to help US officials stepped between the two who were arguing once the security official began approaching, looking like he was going to throw a punch.
    “Calm down please. Calm down,” pleaded a White House official.
    “Stop, please,” said a foreign ministry official in Chinese. “There are reporters here.”
    ..
    But, hold on, sports fans. The action was not over yet.

    As soon as the White House communications staff entered the state house, the arguments started up again, when the White House press officers lobbied for the traveling press corps to gain entry, the pool report said. “You are only allowed 10,” said a Chinese official.

    Apparently, 10 was not the correct answer. “That’s not right,” the pool report quotes the White House press official. In fact, two reporters who had traveled with the president were left outside.

    The shouting did not abate, the report said.

    Twenty minutes before Obama’s arrival, U.S. press officers were still arguing in the room where the two presidents would soon be meeting along with Ban Ki Moon to talk of their cooperation. As U.S. official a pleaded for two U.S. journalists left outside to be allowed to stand in the back of the room. “There’s space. They are print reporters. They would just be just standing,” said one White House press officer.
    It was a fight they did not win.
    (Sourced from one of the news sites that the Globalists want to shut down if they win the American Presidency.)

    ...
    I believe Trudeau got "schlonged" at this meet-up. Later on he revealed that he may have sold the cow for some magic promises. He agreed to an extradition treaty even though it runs against Canada's human rights code as China has the death penalty. I believe he just thumbed his nose somehow at the Canadian Parliament when members complained in session and told them they were "racist". ( /sarcasm.. I mean he gave them some jabberty-jab rhetoric not even worth remembering and he didn't care what they thought about it).
    Anyway CBC's "pretty boy" gets away with just about anything.. after all "It's the current year" and he's got a majority..
    ..
    I've dealt with Chinese Officials many times and I learned from them that "promises cost nothing" You gotta have moxie, chutzpah and a hard nose to even break even with them and I can't imagine that Trudeau, who seems like a guy who simply spouts one piece of rhetoric after another, could possibly hold up his end with them.
    I mean the rhetoric technique is successful in the propaganda game but it doesn't have any hard chips on the poker table.

    .....
    Looking at the G20 you have a block of Leftist-"progressive" Globalist-backed "elected" Western leaders (elected due to the Globalist control of the MSM) , a few of their Islamist allies and one deadly enemy: Russia and they are in the country of the 3rd enemy. It seems they are enemies.

    So the world is shaping up much like Oceania (Globalists) versus EastAsia (China) versus Eurasia (Russia).
    But this 1984 map I found will need some re-working of borders . And where does Islam fit in ? Absorbed by the Globalists , conquering the Globalists? or a fourth entity?

    Name:  1984-world-map.jpg
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    Last edited by wolfen; 10-02-2016 at 12:10 AM.
    "顺其自然"

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